Super OEM turntable versus Technics SL1200

P

ppg_wave2v

New Member
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with one of the Super-OEM (Technics SL1200 clone) turntables?

Their platter is suppose to be based on the technology used in the SL1200 which came out of patent. I am not sure about the tonearm.

Models based on this design include Stanton ST-150, Citronic PD-45, SYNC XTRM1, Reloop RP6000, Omnitronic DD5200 and American Audio HTD4.5. Apparently a base model is made in China, and then these companies badge them and add a few cosmetic changes.

I wonder how it sounds versus the SL1200? I've been thinking about getting one.

Cheers
Mark
 
It seems to me you're going to have to listen to one to find out if it sounds good. The people I've seen criticize these knock-offs ordinarily don't have one and have not heard one.
 
You could also read the technical specs on the clones -- if they're even provided -- to get some idea of how close they come in performance to the SL-1200. The key areas in which most of the clones fall short are wow and flutter, which Technics specified at 0.025% WRMS for the SL-1200, and rumble, which Technics specified at -78 dB. The Stanton's wow and flutter is 0.1%, four times what an SL-1200 delivers but probably still low enough to be listenable. The Reloop matches the Stanton's spec. I couldn't find any specs on the Citronic or the Synq and I didn't bother looking for the other two.

If you're considering one of these decks, read the specs and follow Bob's advice on auditioning before you buy.
 
Build quality is inferior on most Super OEM models. Wow and flutter specification also not as good. Durability isn't as good. The Audio-Technica 1200 clone is the best made of the batch and consistent but not quite up to 1200 spec. But it is an OK table at a fair price.
 
Mark,

Here's my thoughts on the matter.

If you could, try to pick up a used SL1200MK2. If something's not right with it, it can be fixed by Kevin at KAB, who still deals with parts, or if you're handy, you can fix it yourself.

They are reliable, durable, proven- there's a large aftermarket parts support group- they can be modified to some seriously impressive performance- and the clones, although won't sound bad (this is of course relative), really aren't the level of build quality and performance of the real thing. They, frankly, are an imitation of the real deal, and just not as good.

Some of the arms are okay, others- I'd not let them near my records. And remember- the prices of these decks have always been lower- as have been the specs, the parts, the tolerances. Everything is cheaper. They are just not as refined.

It is hard for me to recommend these to anyone who's serious about record ownership and playback.
 
I have a friend who has the Audio Technica clone and he's happy with it. He's a retired professional Jazz drummer and I trust his judgement. I haven't heard the turntable, and although I could probably bring my SL-1200 over to his place for a "shoot-out", I won't bother.
 
I strongly advise against purchasing this knockoff of the SL-1200Mk2. The first red flag for me is that it is made in China and not Japan as the SL-1200Mk2 was. I have no idea what it costs but your taking a gamble that this thing will very likly turn out to be a dud. There's no gambling with a Technics 1200 and after 30 years its repuation is untarnished.
 
Dr Tinear said:
You could also read the technical specs on the clones -- if they're even provided -- to get some idea of how close they come in performance to the SL-1200. The key areas in which most of the clones fall short are wow and flutter, which Technics specified at 0.025% WRMS for the SL-1200, and rumble, which Technics specified at -78 dB. The Stanton's wow and flutter is 0.1%, four times what an SL-1200 delivers but probably still low enough to be listenable. The Reloop matches the Stanton's spec. I couldn't find any specs on the Citronic or the Synq and I didn't bother looking for the other two.

If you're considering one of these decks, read the specs and follow Bob's advice on auditioning before you buy.
Click to expand...

What the OP is saying is these are all the same OEM turntable with the badges listed, which I believe is correct.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone- lots of good advice!

There is a DJ shop not far from my place which has a Stanton clone, so I might borrow my friends 1200 and take it down and see how they compare.

Cheers,
Mark
 
The reason I strongly suggest avaoiding the clones/knockoffs is that even with the 1200 being discontinued there are millions of them out there, new parts are readly availble if ever needed and if you want to upgrade there are quite a few excellent accessories from KAB etc. Bottom line is that the imposters may look like a 1200 but they will never perform like a 1200 which has the specs and durability the others can never match.
 
Bob_in_OKC said:
What the OP is saying is these are all the same OEM turntable with the badges listed, which I believe is correct.
Click to expand...

Can we be certain that one of these turntables isn't an even cheaper knock-off of the OEM Technics clone? This is Chinese manufacturing we're talking about, after all. :D
 
I know it is always recommended to listen and compare turntables before coming to a conclusion as to how a turntable sounds and performs. That might be fine when we are talking about real turntables but as far as I'm concerned these 1200 knockoffs are barely beyond the "toy class" and I'd consider it a waste of time to even try to be impartial testing them against a 1200.
 
I own both

I own a Technics SL1200MKII which I am currently running an Ortofon Concorde Pro with an OM20 stylus, sounds great.

I also own a Stanton ST.150 with an Ortofon 320u, also sounds great.

I bought the Stanton second hand off eBay for $200.00, it was used as a DJ deck by the previous owner, seems to have survived it's previous DJ life without any damage, and has performed reliably for me as well. It's been my second deck since I got the Technics. The Stanton is build very VERY solidly.
I couldn't here any wow and flutter when I got it until after I read the spec's then I could hear it.
However once I got the Technics and compared the two, I really can't tell the difference, I think the wow and flutter I was hearing were more psychosomatic, brought on by reading the 0.1% wow and flutter number than any real audible artefact.

Having said that, it's really easy to find someone to service the Technics and parts are readily available.

If I want the Stanton serviced, I have to freight it from Melbourne to a service centre in Sydney.

Additionally the Technics arm seems better assembled than the Stanton (the stanton was sloppy when I got it, I have tightened it up ever so slightly and all is good now)

So unless the Stanton wins on price by a considerable margin, or you desperately need to play records backwards, I'd pick the Technics every time.
 
On many if not most recordings, most listeners would be hard-pressed to hear a difference between 0.1% W&F and 0.025%. For some of us, unfortunately, 0.1% is audible on the right kind of music. I use solo piano and oboe recordings to reveal wow and flutter, and on more than a few occasions I've heard a difference where the specs said there was a measurable difference. Usually the wow and flutter has to be above 0.07% for me to hear it, though.
 
Going directly to the recording of the Vinyl itself. If a Neumann, a Larry Scully lathe which were recording Master Discs at wow & flutter ranges from 0.015 and as low as 0.009. Then having Matsushita (Technics) make a motor to reproduce the playback of a range between 0.025 and 0.01 is pretty darn good.
Competitors in Europe and Asia have tried to out perform the Technics in the Motor area. While most of them focused on Faster Torque Speeds, they never perfected the consistency of the speed itself.
In the 90's i remember in New York, they used to Market GEMINI Turntables as the official knockoff of the 1200, clearly a turntable of less quality but somewhat got the job done. Then when Citronic, KAM, Stanton, Gemini and Numark stepped up to the plate, But still cant out perform the motor quality of what a 1200 delivers. Keep in mind these companies who make turntables and mixers and cartridges all started from a particular type of product that they were known for. ie: Stanton= known for their Cartridges, Numark=known for their mixers, Citronic= known for their mixers.
The difference between these brands vs Technics is when you have a turntable originally designed for hi-fi use and engineered to the T for the best playback, there is alot to invest into the design and construction.
The "Super-OEM" Turntables with the exception of a few, have mainly used generic circuit schematics and generic rules of pivot mathematics for tracking. Once this is clear they start jazzing up the table to fool the buyer that these tables come with all the toys and is possibly the superior turntable. Meanwhile, the motor isnt near the capability of a Matsushita Motor, the arm construction is usually moulded plastic of heavier mass and the platter assembly is usually wobbly and uses poor bearings.

The only Table I can only think of that took Technics full on in Turntables were Vestax. They had built very good motors for their tables and their arms were designed quite well (the S-Arm Versions). Although they could never beat Technics in the 0.025~0.01 Range, they were the closest. Vestax went worldwide with alot of their products especially in the DJ industry, but they used to be exclusively in Japan and the Asian Market.
The Audio Technica is actually not bad either. Their design was focused on the the acurate tracking and best sound production. The arms arent bad either. The motor is OK and is digitally controlled. Sony and Denon tried the market as well, but never got the attention or sales they wanted.
 
Just wanted to relive this thread to say that I'm an outspoken fan of Super-OEM turntables. I mean, of course the Technics SL-1200 is one hell of a turntable. Actually, one of my biggest frustrations in life is not having owned one. They always were very expensive where I live and, although I could have made the investment, there were always other priorities, specially when CDs took over the market.

When I realized vinyl records' gradual resurgence, that was also a revival of my dormant vinyl fever and one of the first things I thought was upgrading my Gemini XL-DD20, with which I was never really happy. But oh surprise! Technics is dead! And although I know that one the first recommendations that always pop up when someone asks for advice on buying a TT is "buy used", it's against my personal rules to buy second-hand appliances without trying them first.

So, I started my research: What am I going to do now that Technics doesn't exist anymore? I've never thought of Rega/Pro-Ject style turntables. I like the Technics style. Fortunately I'm an avid reader and it wasn't a hassle for me to navigate among the whole lots of websites talking about alternatives to the SL-1200. Then I found about the Super-OEM turntables. The first one I read about was the Audio Technica AT-LP1240-USB and this review got me interested. Then I found about the Stanton ST.150, Numark TTXUSB, Akiyama Acura, Synq X-TRM 1, Hanpin DJ-5500 (the one on which all the others are based) and others.

So, and after reading lots of reviews (mostly positive), I decided to take the risk and get one of those. Since the AT-LP1240-USB was the first one I found, that's what I wanted to get. But unfortunately I couldn't find a seller that ships it internationally. After checking the other options, I noticed the Numark TTXUSB and also found that it could be shipped without any problems to my country. Aside from being in the same league of the Audio Technica (both are top of the line for each brand), availability was the main reason why I chose the Numark.

After the advice of a sales representative from Needle Doctor, I chose the Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge. It's the first hi-fi (low VTF) cartridge I have (the Gemini has a Pickering V-15, which is a DJ cartridge) and at first I was frustrated because of the high skipping rate, which I hadn't experienced before. I asked about this situation to Mr. Kevin Barnes from Kabusa.com and his reply was...

the lighter a cartridge can track, the more sensitive the suspension is. This is good for playing demanding music, not so good for plowing through dirt and scratches. So if you have records that play fine at 1.5- 2.0 grams, then the trouble is with the records.
If it clears with higher pressure, it sounds like dirt to me. Your next move might be a good record cleaner. You could try cleaning the offending record by hand first to test my theory.
Click to expand...

Coincidentally, I had recently found about the wood glue method and that was like the green light to try it. I was (and still am) amazed at the difference. The wood glue really works! No more skipping. So it wasn't the cartridge/tonearm, as I was afraid of.

Time will tell the truth, but so far I'm living a honeymoon with this turntable. And, while I'm sure that an audiophile will never consider one of these, I think it's a more than decent option for someone who simply wants to get a reliable machine to enjoy high quality-sounding music without overthinking about nuances that nobody knows for sure if they are real or just a placebo effect (green markers for CDs anyone?). Of course, my impressions will change if my turntable fails in a short/not so short period of time, but so far I'm convinced about the sturdiness of this machine. Still, I'd love to have a Technics SL-1200MK2 just for the sake of getting rid of the frustration of never owning one, but right now I don't feel that I really need it.

Apologies for the long post. Finding this thread made me feel like venting my feelings about this sensitive subject. Thanks for reading!
 
Hail Vinyl! - Off topic, but are you a native speaker of English? If you are indeed a native Colombian, your command of the English language is superb!
 
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