Supertweeters?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by legal eagle, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. PianotunerNJ

    PianotunerNJ Active Member

    Messages:
    140
    Location:
    Central NJ
    As my handle would suggest, I'm a professional piano tuner. I have been a rock musician and concert goer since childhood, I'm 47 now. Sometimes I'm surprised how many of my customers simply cannot hear the tone produced by the highest notes on the piano. Often these are people not too much older than me and with far less history of abusing their ears than I have.

    Maybe I'm just lucky, but I can discern the effect of high frequency in the music I'm listening to quite clearly. I'm not sure what the uppermost limits of my hearing is, but I would say that when I listen to good high resolution recordings there is a realism that is brought about by introducing as many of the frequencies, or as broad a range of frequency, as occurs in a live situation. The interplay between the frequency range that most people an hear and the stuff above and below that, all play a part in creating a more realistic reproduction of a sound, and that's the ultimate goal for a good audio system.

    My system I think has a range up to about 40khz. Even if I can only hear a quarter of that, I can hear the effect of the high frequencies that are there in my high res recordings. I would also say that after a few years of listening to high res stuff, my CD quality and below all sound a bit compressed and limited by comparison. I'm not saying I don't enjoy CD's anymore, but I hear a clear difference in dynamics and realism with the 24/96 stuff without a doubt, and I believe it's primarily due to the presence of the highest and lowest frequencies. I also have an SVS sub pushing down to an audible 20 hz.

    My goal is to not hear my system at all, just pure realistic music as though it's happening in my room. I'm sure to truly achieve that would cost much more than I can afford, but my system comes close enough for me to recognize the importance of range.
     
    stevo137 and legal eagle like this.
  2. legal eagle

    legal eagle Sound Hound

    Messages:
    1,725
    Location:
    On my way to Hell, for sure.
    So - as usual, no uniform opinion.
     
  3. patate91

    patate91 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Chicoutimi, Qc, Canada
    Just do the test yourself and test your hearing limit.

    I suggest that you do your test at normal listening level* with your ear a few inches from tweeter and then at your listening spot.

    http://onlinetonegenerator.com

    *Maybe not if you like your music cranked up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  4. patate91

    patate91 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Chicoutimi, Qc, Canada
    The way music was mixe, and your room acoustic will have an impact on your perception. If you don't hear passed 16k hz tone near the tweeter don't expect to ear it at 9 - 10 feet away, unless the frequencies are amplified by your room, which I doubt.
     
  5. patate91

    patate91 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Chicoutimi, Qc, Canada
    Sorry I forgot to add, that If you want a "more valid" test, ask your wife or a friend to start the tones for you ,(blind) and ask him or her to try to fool you if you can hear the click from the mouse. It will eliminate the : I think I feel or hear it.
     
  6. Drugolf

    Drugolf AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,992
    Location:
    Boise
    Well many of us use a lot of old speakers that have old tweeters that simply cant reproduce high frequencies the way more modern ones can. So unless you want to trade out those old tweeters about the only way to get those upper frequencies would be to add a super tweeter. These Bozaks I am working on probably fall off at 10,000 if that.
     
  7. toddalin

    toddalin Super Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    I totally agree that the higher frequencies, even those normally considered at or above audibility, add a dynamic realism and impact to the sound and have been working toward this end using JBL 2405 tweeters. My current crossover configuration uses a first order cap/resistor with a value of just 0.27 mfd, a first order cap/resistor with a value of 0.58 mfd, and a second order with a cap of 1.5 mfd and choke of 0.5 mH.

    I had it without the first order 0.27 mfd stage and when I added this the difference was easily audible even though it is theoretically at the edge of/above hearing. And it's not just cymbols and synthesizers that benefit. The difference is easily notable on voices, acoustic guitar, and the like.

    With the 0.58 value I removed the "veil." Adding the 0.27 removes the "make-up."

    Question is, are you ready for what's under the make-up?
     
  8. Poultrygeist

    Poultrygeist Addicted Member

    These Fostex's are the creme de la creme of super tweeters and you might expect that for what they cost ( around $1000 ). They weigh all of 16 lbs.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. mkane

    mkane AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,174
    Location:
    103 miles N. of S.F.
    I can see it now. My simple open baffles going from 2 way to 3 way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    Poultrygeist likes this.
  10. PianotunerNJ

    PianotunerNJ Active Member

    Messages:
    140
    Location:
    Central NJ

    That's the question. I have Black Sabbath Paranoid in high res surround and I'm pretty sure you can hear the buttins clicking on the cheap 4 track they recorded it on. It does in fact seem like the more refined my system has gotten, the less I can tolerate bad recordings or compressed files. Well recorded stuff sounds amazing, poorly recorded stuff sounds exposed.
     
  11. centsless

    centsless Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    918
    Location:
    ohio
    How do you wire these super tweeters? I have a pair I want to try.
     
  12. valvenator

    valvenator curious bystander, serious procrastinator Subscriber

    From what I've read about them, Realistic super tweeters have a built in crossover (don't take my word for it though) so you would wire them in parallel with your main speaker.
    Always wanted to own a pair, just for the looks alone:rolleyes:
     
  13. Poultrygeist

    Poultrygeist Addicted Member

    The Realistic super tweeters have a simple crossover which I scrapped in favor of a single cap. The cap value determines how much sizzle comes through.
     
  14. sum of sand

    sum of sand Active Member

    Messages:
    284
    The dq10 piezo stars around 12k and while i couldnt isolate its sound even with a stethoscope
    The sound always seemed to be bleeding in from other drivers
    so after disconnecting the midbass and dome tweeter leaving only midrange

    Found quite a bit of music comes through
    After recap as well

    Oddly i felt by disconnecting the piezo you could sense its loss quite easily
    could just not isolate it with the others playing

    i think the piezo draws upper frequency weight toward the midbass creating a more harmonious blend than having all the higher frequencies to one side if were to leave it disconnected like so many did

    Sound seems to come more from a single full range than multiple drivers
    Shrug

    but different case than a super starting up higher at 15k which i think most do?
     
  15. Poultrygeist

    Poultrygeist Addicted Member

    These Eminence ASD1001 horn drivers recently added to my OB's extend to 18 kHz and sound very good. Problem is they're closed back with little rear radiation which means I don't get the same airy sound I got from the Realistics ( sans pod ). Other than that I prefer them over the Realistics. The B&C DE35 is open back and gets great reviews but cost twice as much as the ASD1001 so I guess it should be on my radar.

    P1010010 2.jpg
     
  16. legal eagle

    legal eagle Sound Hound

    Messages:
    1,725
    Location:
    On my way to Hell, for sure.
    Oooo...want!
    What's the model?
     
  17. mhardy6647

    mhardy6647 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    50,860
  18. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8641 Subscriber

    +1

    I still use an old Rat Shack super tweeter with an Eico HF12 to augment the center channel on my main system. Adds a lot of clarity to an otherwise semi-dull Bose VR speaker ...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. absolve2525

    absolve2525 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,999
    What caps are you guys using with your Realistic super tweets? I never thought about using them open? They radiate from the rear too?
     
  20. stevo137

    stevo137 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,593
    Location:
    Northwest Indiana

    Tuner Man!

    Great piano tuners have grear ears and know how to listen.

    I have had my share of pianos and I know at one touch if that A4 is at
    440 hertz.

    I'll bet you leave those pianos right at 440 and most don't even know the difference!

    Way to go tuner man! ;-)"
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017

Share This Page