Supraphon questions

[davidro]

So I scored a few Supraphon records in a pristine condition a while ago.
Mostly chamber music. Something my collection tends to lack.

These recordings sound so right.
Something 'I-want-my-audio-to-sound-like-a-concert-hall' would love.
And that's me.
The 3D imaging, acoustic tone & natural ambience is excellent.

Wonder what it is they did so right.
Wonder what has happened to their old pressing factories.

 

[Grbluen]

I have never heard of this label. I will definitely keep an eye out for those. Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[Grbluen]

I love chamber music. Maybe you could put up a couple of pics of your favorites?

 

[guiller]

So I scored a few Supraphon records in a pristine condition a while ago.
Mostly chamber music. Something my collection tends to lack.

These recordings sound so right.
Something 'I-want-my-audio-to-sound-like-a-concert-hall' would love.
And that's me.
The 3D imaging, acoustic tone & natural ambience is excellent.

Wonder what it is they did so right.
Wonder what has happened to their old pressing factories.

I´ve got no answers but agree with your comments. I´ve been collecting Supraphons since the 70´ s and always thought that perhaps their engineers used some "older" (for the time, e.g., tubed) recording equipment that gave them that special quality. But most probably it was due to the fact that recording engineers were very talented! Of course, the musical aspect was always superb as Czech musicias had a long standing tradition of excellence (Mozart wrote one of his best symphonies to give an opportunity to the musicians of the National Theatre orchestra in Prague to show their virtuoso qualities!).

 

[davidro]

I´ve got no answers but agree with your comments. I´ve been collecting Supraphons since the 70´ s and always thought that perhaps their engineers used some "older" (for the time, e.g., tubed) recording equipment that gave them that special quality. But most probably it was due to the fact that recording engineers were very talented! Of course, the musical aspect was always superb as Czech musicias had a long standing tradition of excellence (Mozart wrote one of his best symphonies to give an opportunity to the musicians of the National Theatre orchestra in Prague to show their virtuoso qualities!).

Sounds like a lead, Guille.
It may be the tubes they may have used.

But recordings from that era tend to sound mushy and boxy,
Whereas the clarity of the Supraphons could easily put some of SACDs into shame.

The Supraphon clarity comes with the realism and immediacy.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk 2

 

[juncers]

I doubt if tubes have anything to do with it. That myth just won't go away.

I suspect that minimal miking, good engineering practices, great hall acoustics and attention to mastering detail is the answer. That all adds up to Guille's "very talented" engineers.

Having said that, I also collect Supraphon LPs. I have about 50 and am always looking for more.

Congrats on the score.

Ray

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Yes, Supraphon recordings were minimally miked in great acoustical environments and are of high technical quality and sonics. The Czechs knew how to make great recordings and master and press them well.

 

[davidro]

You may be right Ray. I was thinking more in line of those 'Tubes Only' recordings.

Compared to Supraphon, dare I say some of the LSCs sound rather artificial?

Not that I don't enjoy the LSCs BTW,

Kent, them Czechs sure did.

But I wonder what became of their plants in the era were we have serious dearth of good pressing factories?

I hear they're utilising the ones in Germany but there's no mention of them Czechs.

 

[juncers]

But I wonder what became of their plants in the era were we have serious dearth of good pressing factories?

I hear they're utilising the ones in Germany but there's no mention of them Czechs.

I think the old Gramofonové Závody ( now GZ Media ) are still pressing records in the Czech
Republic.

Ray

 

[davidro]

Thanks Ray. That's good to hear.

Listening to some Schumann & Franck played by Foerster Trio on their records.

Sublime stuff. Both SQ and the performance.

 

[njmpmcc]

Supraphon to Crossroads

The Crossroads budget label picked up many Supraphon recordings back in the 60 to 70's. Does anyone have any idea on the relative sound quality of the two different pressings. As I remember, I liked their recordings that I purchaed, so I'll check to see what I can find from those days and how they might compare with more current works if available.

 

[guiller]

The Crossroads budget label picked up many Supraphon recordings back in the 60 to 70's. Does anyone have any idea on the relative sound quality of the two different pressings. As I remember, I liked their recordings that I purchaed, so I'll check to see what I can find from those days and how they might compare with more current works if available.

I´ve got a few duplicates on both labels, like Smetana´s Festive Symphony with Karel Sejna conducting the CPO. The difference is important in favor of the original Supraphon release. The Crossroads release sounds flatter, with more background noise and less detailed (i.e., with a more fuzzy sound stage). IMHO, the differences are similar to those between EMI Electrola and Angel releases, roughly speaking. Having said that, there are cases in which I´ve got the Crossroads release and enjoy them as well because most musical performances on those recordings are, to my eyes, just wonderful.

 

[guiller]

I suspect that minimal miking, good engineering practices, great hall acoustics and attention to mastering detail is the answer. That all adds up to Guille's "very talented" engineers.

That sounds like a more convincing argument in favor of those recordings, Ray! I remember that, when digital recording broke in, Supraphon signed an agreement with Denon and several Japanese engineers stayed in Prague instructing their Czech colleagues on the use of the new technology. As a result, there were superb early digital recordings made by Supraphon, like Smetana´s Má vlast conducted by Vaclav Smetacek (CPO).

 

[davidro]

I think I have that Denon PCM recording on vinyl, too Guille.

Still, there is a reasonable possibility that they may have used some of older equipment well.
I mean we too have some very well-recorded digital stuff in classical music but there's something unique about the Supraphon recordings.

 

[njmpmcc]

Supraphon Recordings

I´ve got a few duplicates on both labels, like Smetana´s Festive Symphony with Karel Sejna conducting the CPO. The difference is important in favor of the original Supraphon release. The Crossroads release sounds flatter, with more background noise and less detailed (i.e., with a more fuzzy sound stage). IMHO, the differences are similar to those between EMI Electrola and Angel releases, roughly speaking. Having said that, there are cases in which I´ve got the Crossroads release and enjoy them as well because most musical performances on those recordings are, to my eyes, just wonderful.

Thanks for your response. I checked my collection and found about a dozen Crossroads (relatively easy to find because of their X on the spine) , but found no overlap with Supraphon. The only Supraphon I found was the Smetana Quartets by the Smetana Quartet, available on both labels, but not one I have. I did note that Crossroads said the their Supraphon recordings were only available in the US from them, seemingly contradicted by my Supraphon Smetana. These (mid 60's to early 70's) all predated digital recording so that should not be an explanation for recordings of that period. I'll compare my Supraphon to some CDs I have of the Smetana quartets which are some of my favorite pieces.

 

[davidro]

the Smetana quartets which are some of my favorite pieces.

An excellent taste

Spinning another Supraphon that I've just cleaned - Flosman VC & Valek symphony 10. Even the orchestral recordings are excellent. The high is smooth & refined, yet not boxy like some of older recordings.

 

[T68]

Bump and +1 on the super Supraphon recordings!
Back in 1990 I visited Prague with friends. This was right after the velvet revolution. A really special experience and a really nice city.
But shopping was still "East Europe standard". Not much in the stores but: cheap classical music records (and dirt cheap but fine beer)!
Being an ignorant 22 year old punk I shoved something like 10-15 LP:s into my bag and paid something like 10 dollars for them (exchange rates was really in our favour), before taking the train back to Sweden.
Well: back then I just listened to rock and pop and I never played the Czech albums and they just stod in the cabinet. Well maybe spun one or two when I had dates over to try to appear refined and cultural.
And like most others I stopped playing vinyl at all in the mid 90's.
Now when I'm getting back into this wonderful hobby I of course started rummaging through my old records. And eventually found the Czech stuff.
Most of it is Supraphon pressings and man do they sound good!
There may have been a lot of wrong and backwards stuff going on behind the iron curtain back then.
But they really knew how to record live classical music, master it and put it on vinyl.
Right know enjoying a 1980 recording with Shizuka Ishikawas Mozart Violin concertos

 

[Solist]

I do have a couple of Supraphon records and a mint box set (Antologie Jazzu). The box in general sounds really nice, although some tracks are really old so there is some background noise.

But other than that I cant say anything bad, they did a superb job imo.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Supraphon to Crossroads

The Crossroads budget label picked up many Supraphon recordings back in the 60 to 70's. Does anyone have any idea on the relative sound quality of the two different pressings. As I remember, I liked their recordings that I purchaed, so I'll check to see what I can find from those days and how they might compare with more current works if available.

I own several Crossroads issues of Supraphon recordings, they are excellent sounding, usually well mastered and pressed. Crossroads, was a division of Epic records (who in that era had a fine classical division). Their chamber music recordings are sometime I love really well.

 

[doctor fuse]

I have loved the "Golden Age" recordings of the Czech Philharmonic conducted by Karel Ancerl, since I was 12 and listened to their 1960 recording of Rite of Spring at the Toronto Reference Library (I recall they had about 20 Thorens or Philips turntables and decent headphones).

It is a recording like no other. A nice wet acoustic in their Prague hall (Rudolfium or Dvorak Hall?), but mic'ed on the close side so detail and articulation is not lost. The remarkable thing about that orchestra, then, was THE ENTIRE ORCHESTRA - FROM PICCOLO DOWN TO DOUBLE BASS - VIBRATE AT THE SAME PITCH WIDTH AND SPEED. It is an eerie thing, hearing an orchestra play as one giant instrument. At times it almost gives the effect of midi music.

And the timpani is recorded so well!

The negative side, is these recordings are excessively "trebly" (not really "bright", but there is a definite treble boost) and bass shy. Tone controls or EQ are a plus with these.

Pretty much anything from 1958-1965 is highly recommended. Ancerl's legacy of recordings of 20th century composers stands head-to-head with Bernstein, Reiner, and Karajan, in my books.

A personal story: When I first got the job as principal violist of the Victoria Symphony, back in the mid-90s, as a young 20-something, there was a semi-retired old Czech violist, Jaroslav Karlovsjky, who had been the viola professor at the University of Victoria, and who played in my section every once in a while. When I found out this was the principal violist of the Czech Phil back in the Ancerl days, it felt like I had met a rock star! (when I played my viola concerto for him - later conducted by Yannick Nezet-Seguin in performance - he said to me :"You are ARTIST", in his thick Slavic Accent. A milestone in my career).
When I visited NYC in the mid-90s, I found his 1960 recording on CD, of the Bartok Viola Concerto. I excitedly told him how much I admired his recording. "Ach, is terrible", he replied modestly. "Back zhen, izz NEW MUSICK. No one know how it goez".
It was true. William Primrose, the Scottish viola virtuoso, commissioned the work from Bartok, as he lay dying of leukemia in NYC, in 1945. Miraculously, he almost finished the score (it was translated for orchestra from his short-hand manuscript, by his friend Tibor Serly, who also wrote about 24 bars to finish the piece. One of the less spectacular endings in late-Bartok works. One can only imagine if Bela had the time and energy to properly finish the piece.
Primrose, being the commissioner, had a 15 year exclusivity contract for the concerto. This expired in 1960, and Jaro and the Czech Phil were the first to record it then. A friend recently gave me a vinyl copy.

RIP, Jaroslav Karlovsky