SX-850 Phono 1 and 2 issues

[day67]

Ahhhh, mistake. Its not the "pin-out orietation of the caps" it's the pinout orientation of the trannys that I meant.

 

[markthefixer]

trannies? :nono: transformer transistor grrrr.... :gigglemad

replacements transistors are NOT automatically wired in the same as the originals!!!!

you have to READ the symbol on the board (before you pull the old transistor to be sure the symbol is correct) then look up the replacement transistor (mouser always has links to data sheets you can download) lead orientation, and adjust accordingly.

This should help...

I have now done the cleaning. So I guess next thing is to desolder and resolder the new parts. All the old smaller caps have the polarity marked on them but I don't seem to find the markings on the biggest ones. And now I need help with the orientation of the new transistors.

every Mouser transistor has a data sheet available for download.... download them and look them up. then install as per the symbol printed on the pc board at that location.
never ever use the original transistor to determine how the replacement will go in.

from an earlier post:



First you need to learn about what the three transistor leads are about, and identifying which is which and where it goes according to the symbol. Then you will see that my parts list include lead arrangements - which assume the transistor lettering (and flat) are facing you and the leads are facing down, then go left to right.

Q13 2sc938 150v 0.05a 0.6w
512-KSC2383YTA to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe $0.17

The big TO-220's with the metal mounting plate are hard to reverse, but the smaller ones are, but my specified replacements are usually E C B as a rule of thumb BUT we ALWAYS CHECK...

But you really should start here and follow ALL the links...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=331932&page=5

here's a preview, DO YOU SEE these symbols on the boards you are working on?:

e is always the arrow on one angled line (direction can be out (npn) or in (pnp) towards the base)
b is always the flat line the other two lines come out if at an angle
c is always the angled line without the arrow

letters can be smudged or illegible, while the symbols are hard to mistake and pretty language independent
pioneer doesn't use letters, if there is a symbol. sometimes in a linear hole arrangement, there is only an 'e'.... with no room for a symbol.

-----------------------------------------------------

now a quick lesson on installing a small transistor in a traditional triangular hole arrangement with a symbol printed in the center of the triangle

1. find the LEFTmost lead on the package and identify it's designation (emitter? base? collector?)
2. look at the symbol on the board, find the corresponding hole
3. insert that lead into that hole
4. find the RIGHTmost lead on the package and identify it's designation (emitter? base? collector?)
5. look at the symbol on the board, find the corresponding hole
6. insert that lead into that hole
7. the center lead will now need to bent forward or back to go into the leftover hole.

DON'T THINK "WHERE IS THE FLAT FACING"
think
"outside leads" and THEIR holes...

this one's ecb....

and two transistor layouts, ebc and ecb with the same triangular target hole arrangement

well, you do need to get the parts, first....

and when ordering the transistors, mouser has links to the transistor's data sheets, DOWNLOAD the data sheets!!! THEY are your BEST guide as to the correct lead connections for THAT particular transistor.

Do you understand the transistor symbol? enough to identify the emitter, base and collector from it? Because most boards (Pioneer) have the symbol printed on it, with holes around it, and it is orientated so there is an emitter hole, a base hole and a collector hole. And obviously, only the transistor's emitter goes into the emitter hole, the base into the base's hole and the collector into the collector's hole. IF you want it to work...

oh, and by the way, the symbol usually DOESN'T have the E, C and B letters ON on it... :stupid:
there are two flavors,
pnp: arrow pointing in, 2sa,2sb, ksa, ksb part number prefixes
npn: arrow pointing out, 2sc,2sd,ksc,ksd part number prefixes

hint: if "rotating" it in your mind is a puzzler, orient it in the hole this way(transistor hole arrangements are usually triangular):

choose the leftmost lead, use the data sheet to identify it... for example it is the emitter
put it in the emitter hole

choose the rightmost lead, use the data sheet to identify it... for example it is the base
find the base hole, rotate the transistor line of leads around the inserted leftmost lead to point at the base hole
put the rightmost (base) lead in the base hole.

the THIRD hole is now either in front of or behind the transistor, in this example the collector is "left over"
bend the center lead forward or back to go into the hole.

easy...

notice that this example had the lead order of emitter, collector, base which is a common lead arrangement

that means that:

looking at the transistor, with the leads pointing DOWN, and the flat part (or lettering in the case of some zetex transistors) FACING YOU
going from left to right has the lead order of emitter, collector, base

 

[quicky94]

Thanks for that mark and day67, I will be sure not to wrong with that! My old man served his time in the RAF working on avionics so he's my resident electronics encyclopaedia just in case I get stuck!!

 

[quicky94]

Just a quick update,

Replaced all recommended caps and trans and the receiver sounds great on both phono stages now!

Sadly I did find that the flat amp board was covered in electrolyte so its looking like I might be recapping the entire unit at this rate! But it's all for the fun of it.

Thanks to all who gave their help and assistance

 

[markthefixer]

electrolyte looks like chunky multi-colored dried puke,

the boards CAN be covered in residual flux from wave soldering
- sort of a splotchy brown film (harmless),

as well as glue holding larger caps down in preparation for wave soldering
- looks like dribbles of hot melt glue again harmless in this manufacturer - others it isn't, it turns corrosive.

 

[quicky94]

Then in that case the board is definitely covered in electrolyte from the base of the caps.

But here are the before and afters of the phono board

 

[Supervan2]

Hello Guys,

i know it´s an old Thread but you are my only help. Im from Germany and at first, sorry for my bad English, but I think you will understand me. I also have an bad Phono Board on my new SX-850.
Does somebody know if the SC2240 Transistor is the right one? Will it work if i use this one for the replacemant instead of the 2SC1313?

@quicky94
Have u used the SC2240 and is your Phono still working?

Greatings from Germany

 

[tsd71]

Use KSA992 and KSC1845

 

[Supervan2]

Use KSA992 and KSC1845

You mean this one?

https://www.reichelt.de/2SC-Transis...339&GROUPID=2900&artnr=SC+1845&SEARCH=KSC1845

https://www.reichelt.de/2SA-Transis...15752&GROUPID=2898&artnr=SA+992&SEARCH=KSA992

 

[tsd71]

They should do it,you need 4 1845's and 2 992's

 

[Supervan2]

They should do it,you need 4 1845's and 2 992's

Ok, i will try it and let you know if and how it`s working?

Can i damage other parts of the Receiver if they are not the right ones?
Sorry for the question, but i`m an absolutely Noob about this.

 

[tsd71]

Just make sure you replace them the correct way, the original pinouts might be different from the new ones. Newer 992's and 1845's have an E-C-B pinout, older trannies might be a different pinout.
If you need help placing them correctly just ask.

 

[Supervan2]

It worked. I've changed the capacitors and the transistors an both channels are working again.