SX-9930 rebuild and some general questions

Discussion in 'Pioneer Audio' started by kdschmidt, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. kdschmidt

    kdschmidt New Member

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    That's what I was hoping to learn by those extra bits of code/part number. That is, while the main info is usually pretty clear, are some of the other characteristics or series revealed in those extra bits? How do I tell a CEA cap from a CEANL cap, or a UKL series from a UES series by looking at it (other than via experience)? Perhaps some of those extra bits describe that or things like lead spacing or size as well.
    I do have most of the Tuning Fork booklets saved on my computer, which brought up one slightly confusing statement regarding the "NL" designation. In a section referring to Characteristics, represented by a 2-letter code, applying to CC, CK and CE type caps;

    "4.3 Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors (CE) This type of capacitor, designed for very low leakage currents, is given an NL code and is covered by an orange tube."

    Well, most of the caps (factory originals) on my EQ amp board are designated in my manual (an SX-939 manual) as CEA-NL caps. None of which are covered in an orange tube. It did remind me though that the color of the cap might reveal the series, and /or other characteristics, if I had some manufacturers charts to explain them.
    Larry/MTF's info (as well as some other helpful posters) solves this for me by advising the use of Nichicon UKL series (or the Sanyo FC's), and I can see those series mentioned in [most] catalogs, such as Mouser's. That only helps though for Nichicon/Sanyo caps as other manufacturers use different codes for their different series caps, which I am as yet unable to decipher. Fortunately it seems most, if not all of the caps I will need are still available in Nichicon. If I had to access a few different manufacturers to fill my needs for various reasons the the research would be very demanding!
    Which leads me to another question, is mixing different manufacturers parts not good, or is that a matter of little importance?
     
  2. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

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    It's really simple for PIONEER's of that era. If it's a film cap, use whatever you like as stacked films are becoming a dying breed. Otherwise follow Mark the Fixer's Guide to Caps. He developed this guide over a few decades and hundreds if not a couple thousand receiver overhauls. I've used this guide on my personal SX-434, SX-737, SX-790, SX-939, SX-1010, and more than a few other PIONEER, Sansui, Kenwood, and a Bose receiver over the last 10 years. I also follow it on my tube gear when they need electrolytics.

    In the Service manual in the board parts list, you'll notice that the part # value, voltage, and type (cssa, ceanl, etc) is listed. It doesn't matter what manufacturer you use as long as the cap meets or exceeds the original spec. And todays worst caps generally exceed 1970's cap spec's by at least an order of magnitude. Don't get obcessed over all the other B.S. All you need to know to replace them is Value,Voltage, Temp (usually 105C) and whether it's in the power supply or signal path which makes it easy. If you aren't sure about the last look at the type listing. cea is generally power supply and ceanl, cssa,csza are generally signal path although there can be mixing of the 2 at times.

    Originally Posted by markthefixer
    UPW and UHE from Nichicon is the general purpose e-cap series I usually recommend. Yes, they are 105 degree c caps.
    There are Panasonic caps EchoWars recommends as well, they are fine.

    THEN there are the low leakage caps, which in some circuit locations DO make a difference. They ARE literally QUIETER.
    They are the unique Nichicon UKL series, which was originally just an 85 degree c cap line.
    Now there are UKL's that are 105 degrees c rating.

    When examining the recap lists (especially the ones I personally did) You will find MANY UKL caps in them.

    My "rules of thumb" for caps:
    Quote:
    Rule of thumb: 0.1uf to 1.0uf of any type >> stacked film DSF(cornell dublier) or ECQ (panasonic)caps
    cea >> nichicon upw or uhe caps
    ceb > nichicon tvx axial caps or holler for help on these
    ceanl, cssa, csza >> nichicon UKL caps - (low noise, low electronic leakage)


    It didn't cover non-polarized (or "bi-polar") caps, there are a few, but I can't look up that answer now at this computer about which Nichicon series to use.

    The "stacked film" caps are being discontinued in some convenient voltages, but regular ecq's will do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  3. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

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    None of the old 70's series caps have been made for at least 30 years now, and have been superceded by newer formulations that can do multiple jobs. Which is probably why the UKL is used so much. I will say that none of my PIONEER's were really in bad shape, but there was a distinct and marked improvement in sound quality in ALL of them (even the 434), just by using the UPW/UHE and UKL series. I generally use Cornell Dublier DME series films but have also used the ECQ non stacked in my units. Either one is fine and you won't be dissapointed. Some guys use WIMA caps but most of them come with very short leads. You have to look at the data sheets to suss out the details on how to get the longer lead caps. They tend to be a bit more expensive than the DME's or the ECQ's.

    As for identifying a ukl from a upw The last two letters are on the side of the cap. Nichicon does this with all of their caps. Panasonic also does, but I don't know about the others. Sanyo doesn't exist as a corporation anymore, so information isn't going to be forthcoming anytime soon. I'd just go with Mark's guide and be done with it. It's worked for hundreds of different units here on AK for at least the ten years I've been on here, and probably a few more than that.
     
  4. Oldsansui441

    Oldsansui441 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Great pickup on this fact :thumbsup:, l also noticed this discrepancy when l rebuilt the EQ board on my SX-939. I have gone through my old parts (as l bag and label all old parts) and what you have noticed is definitely correct, the board in mine had all standard Elna's fitted except two 2.2uF tantalums and two 10uF orange united chemicon's. These are the only four that are low leakage.

    All low leakage (low noise) electrolytic caps are easy to identify in your Pioneer, they will have an orange sleeve, a blue sleeve (sanyo) or will be tantalums (like the little blue ones in my photo). All other electrolytics in your unit will be the standard type grey Elna's or black Chemicon's.
     

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