Taming Econowave speaker highs

[turnitdown]

3.6 cu ft tuned to the 4430 tuning. I think mine are tuned to 30-34Hz. I can't remember because these have been in the pipeline for a long time. They WILL perform as well as the 2235Hs BUT, the LE14s reach as far down with more slam. You HEAR the skins on drums and the bass never gets tubby. I suggest with no expertise at all - Build 3.6 cu. ft cabinets and use the crossover for the LE14 Econowave and the upper end should be the Econowave Deluxe = B&C DE250 on the QSC horn. Anything else, ANYTHING ELSE, has to be personally tested and tuned with proper equipment. Go with a winner and build what I suggested. This is insanely good.

 

[absolve2525]

Sweet! Did you have to modify the Deluxe crossover at all? I know I've saved it around here somewhere.

 

[turnitdown]

I didn't have to change the Deluxe HIGH FREQUENCY crossover. Those are stone cold done. The whole idea of Econowave is the high end has been designed to be near perfect. Build it the way it is on paper. The responsibility of the builder is to fine tune the low end to match the high end. IF you build any model the way you find it on the E'wave thread, you'll have a NICE system. IF you go further, you can go from great to amazing. For instance, the E'wave crossover for the LE14 called for a 1.5mH choke on the low end. My baffles are narrow which require baffle step compensation. The stock crossover called for, as I said, a 1.5mH - but I had to go with a 5.0mH inductor and a variable resistor to tune the lows and mids to any room. It's a basic version of the JBL 4430/4435. IF you do this right, your search will end and you will build more just because you can.

 

[EarlK]

I didn't have to change the Deluxe HIGH FREQUENCY crossover. Those are stone cold done. The whole idea of Econowave is the high end has been designed to be near perfect. Build it the way it is on paper. The responsibility of the builder is to fine tune the low end to match the high end. IF you build any model the way you find it on the E'wave thread, you'll have a NICE system. IF you go further, you can go from great to amazing. For instance, the E'wave crossover for the LE14 called for a 1.5mH choke on the low end. My baffles are narrow which require baffle step compensation. The stock crossover called for, as I said, a 1.5mH - but I had to go with a 5.0mH inductor and a variable resistor to tune the lows and mids to any room. It's a basic version of the JBL 4430/4435. IF you do this right, your search will end and you will build more just because you can.

"turnitdown"

The ( not-so-obvious ) irony here ( based on your words ) is you haven't actually followed the path that you just laid out for absolve2525 .

In review;
- You bought & used the component values that are meant for the HiPass section of the "Deluxe" crossover / all the while using the eWave "Standard" setup of HF components.

- ie; you used the "Standard" Selenium d220ti on the H6512 waveguide instead of the "Deluxe" B&C de250 on 152i waveguide .

- This observation is based on your previous posts within this thread ( please correct me if I have got this wrong ).

IOW; ( some might say ) you used the wrong HF network ( for the actual HF components that you have in those boxes ).

OTOH; Since you are obviously enjoying this hybrid setup as is / it's not wrong at all ( though it does have a different HF curve from what Zilch/Jackgiff intended ) .




PS; It's all good / ( till it's not ).

 

[turnitdown]

Nope. I see where might get that from, but what I did in reality is build the network for the standard. I have both the standard network and components installed in this build - and the Deluxe network and components built up for another build. If I alluded to something different, it may because I changed my mind and decided to use the standard HF components and network as a test to see how good the LE14 would mate with them. Just great. During the current build, I got another pair of LE14s which led me to daydream about a setup like a 4435 - a two and a half way with the deluxe top. The current build was an exercise in preparation for something bigger.

Bottom line - After reading the entire Econowave thread multiple times and the P.E. thread "...PCD mettle", I am the last person who would mix oranges with apples. These are by the book, including the admonition that it's up to the builder to fine-tune the particular LF driver to the system, which I/we did.

E'wave is such a worthy pursuit that I wouldn't want to confuse noobs or create something different and call it E'wave without proper tools and testing.

The NEXT project is turning my 4430s into 4435s since I acquired two 2234Hs. No cringing everyone. There will be no harm done to the 4430s.

After that, the two and a half way featuring two LE14s and the DELUXE HF...all by the book.

Clear? lol

 

[EarlK]

Ahh, Okay.

Thanks for the clarification .

 

[absolve2525]

Errr, now I'm confused. Your finished speaker, as shown in your last photo, is using Selenium or B&C? QSC or JBL horns? Standard or deluxe crossovers? I understand you changed the coil on the woofer and have multiple projects going. Thanks!

 

[turnitdown]

The (shown) finished speaker has the Selenium driver on a JBL horn using the Selenium/JBL crossover on top of an LE14. The project after next will have TWO LE14s in a two and a half way config. under the B&C driver on QSC horn and the DELUXE crossover. I have it straight. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[absolve2525]

Okay gotcha! Sweet, keep us updated.

 

[turnitdown]

Thanks. Will do. The rewards are very satisfying.

 

[turnitdown]

I ended up using this... to begin with, then I tuned for my room and enclosure which is 3.6 cu ft. They sound very close to my 4430s. The LE14s dig just as deep as 2235s

 

[absolve2525]

Nice! So you changed the woofer coil to 5ohm, and kept the rest? Aside from adjusting horn level?

 

[turnitdown]

Build the LF section as shown above. You're on your own using a different HF combination. Once built, it's up to you to tune the system. You'll get help here.

 

[absolve2525]

Sounds good! I just need to get some good cabinets for the woofers. I'm glad you're enjoying the results!

 

[turnitdown]

More than you know. Now...on to the next project.

 

[turnitdown]

Well, well, well (Joe Kenda) here is the final iteration...until my test mic arrives. 4mH in series with the LE14A just injected too much bass so, once again, I broke out the meter and a few more chokes. After playing for hours with tracks that had a good balance of bass and mids, divided over days so my ears didn't fatigue, and using EarlKs method with a VR across a second choke the best balance turned out to be a total of 2.6mH for the LE14A. I'm leaving it there until the mic gets here from PE. I have the Behringer unit to run some EQ comparisons on and for the RTA function. No matter, so far, these are very sweet sounding now.

 

[turnitdown]

TEST GEAR HERE AND CONNECTED - I tried both with Zobel and without. The very best curve I got was without and looks like this:

I think I'll keep 'em. Comments? Tips? Tricks? All these Econowave years later, what's the best software analyzer for our purposes? Free or relatively inexpensive preferred.

 

[absolve2525]

Wow, looks great!

 

[tekuhn]

Comment moved to eWave thread

 

[Dudeist]

I simply changed HF drivers from the JBL/Selenium D220ti to the PRV D290py-S. Also upgraded caps to AudioCap. The improvement is VAST, very smooth and detailed.