Tape Shiny or dull facing head?

[cabinet]

Ok, its been so long, but I thought it was the dull side facing the head, and shiny side out. I have two rolls of Ampex Grand Master 456 with the dull facing out. Nothings seems to record on one machine and the other only one channel. Help me out, I use to have decks and knew it at one time, but it seems I have forgotten the basics. The decks are Tascam 42B and an Akai GX400D-SS.

 

[Strawman]

Duller side to the heads.

 

[Aage]

Yes, except for tapes that are back-coated, like Scotch 207. On those it's the duller side out.

Hey, it's audio. There are ALWAYS exceptions, right?

 

[BrocLuno]

Dull => Heads

 

[cabinet]

The tape is Ampex Grand Master 456 and I received two seals 7 inch rolls with the dull side out, the other reel is unknown. I put one of the 7 inch reels onto the 10 inch metal reels, and did not look as it was sealed tape -its kind of weird that Ampex had the dull out, but its been a long time since I had a reel deck. I now have one reel the right way and will test it in morning. (Shinny out and dull facing heads)

 

[Aage]

The tape is Ampex Grand Master 456 and I received two seals 7 inch rolls with the dull side out, the other reel is unknown.

If the tape came in its original packaging, just read the blurb on it. If the dull side is a backing, it will brag about it.

If the tape packaging doesn't mention a back coating, then perhaps the last person to play it accidently managed to somehow wind it inside out. Too much cheer at the party, perhaps?

The backing was a sales feature that came out (when I can't remember, late '70s I think) promoting a coating on the back of the tape. The coating was supposedly designed to allow static charges to leak away instead of building up and potentially causing problems with the recording. Personally, I never heard of such a thing actually happening, but who knows?

It was also touted that the less-slippery back coating gave pinch rollers a better "tooth" on the tape the better to play it consistently.

Nobody else remember this? I came across a box of mostly 7" reels under the stairs day before yesterday, but haven't had time to look through it yet. I'll see if I have a Scotch 206 or 207.

Aage

 

[Cadillac Kid]

On 456 the darker side is out. Ampex 456 is notorious for 'sticky shed' and will clog up the heads. Check for a tar-like goo on the heads and guides. That may be the cause of your one channel problem.

 

[cabinet]

Sticky Stuff - Head Cleaning

Hi, I took one roll and reversed in so the shinny is out and will try that also, and I will clean heads today, is there anything I can use around the house to do a "quick clean", I have mineral spirits and other thinners, I do not want to buy a proper kit at this time. Thanks, for leting me know about the Ampex 456 tape. Neither the Tascam 42B or the Akai GX-400D-SS has been used for many years, both stated they worked fine when put away.

On 456 the darker side is out. Ampex 456 is notorious for 'sticky shed' and will clog up the heads. Check for a tar-like goo on the heads and guides. That may be the cause of your one channel problem.

 

[Cadillac Kid]

If you can use denatured alcohol from a drug store or paint storm or at least use rubbing alcohol.

 

[Aage]

Here's the answer, I think

Well, I did a little looking around, and found this Ampex blurb quoted on ebay by a seller, and here is what it says:

"AMPEX 456 FEATURES: OUR HIGHEST PERFORMANCE TAPE, BIAS COMPATIBLE WITH AMPEX 406/407, BACKCOATED FOR IMPROVED HANDLING AND REDUCED STATIC GENERATION, 100% TESTED 2" CONFIGURATION." (bold is mine, quote is from ebaY Item number: 110305318746)

So, it seems it IS back-coated, which in my view makes "shiny side in" sound to be the right way to play that tape.

 

[StevieDude]

I had questioned this also as I just bought a new/sealed Quantegy 456 and 457 7" reels from my local hifi shop. The side that meets the heads is shiney brown and the back is a dull black in color. I saw the store owner recording with this tape and questioned him and he said it is the way it's made and you should use it with the shiney side to the heads. I have recorded on both of these tapes and they both came out perfectly with the shiney side to the the heads! I know that is not the way I have always used recording tape and it is still weird to do it that way but I believe it is the right way to use it! :yes: My guess is that Quantegy had developed it this way to get away from all the sticky shed syndrome the old Ampex tapes were experiencing!

 

[Cadillac Kid]

My guess is that Quantegy had developed it this way to get away from all the sticky shed syndrome the old Ampex tapes were experiencing!

The Ampex 456 looked the same. The sticky shed problem was related to the binder they used for the tape layers. It would seep in high humidity conditions.

 

[Aage]

The Ampex 456 looked the same. The sticky shed problem was related to the binder they used for the tape layers. It would seep in high humidity conditions.

What a horrible fault! Isn't Quantegy what became of 3M Recorded Media (Scotch Recording Tape)?

::tsk:: You'd think that the boys (workers) that were still working there would know better.

 

[vincei]

I had questioned this also as I just bought a new/sealed Quantegy 456 and 457 7" reels from my local hifi shop. The side that meets the heads is shiney brown and the back is a dull black in color. I saw the store owner recording with this tape and questioned him and he said it is the way it's made and you should use it with the shiney side to the heads. I have recorded on both of these tapes and they both came out perfectly with the shiney side to the the heads! I know that is not the way I have always used recording tape and it is still weird to do it that way but I believe it is the right way to use it! :yes: My guess is that Quantegy had developed it this way to get away from all the sticky shed syndrome the old Ampex tapes were experiencing!

It depends on the brand. Some tapes are backcoated and are flat black on one side and semi gloss brown on another. In that case the tape's brown side is the recording side. Other tapes are not back coated and are shiney on one side and dull on the other. In that case the duller side is the recording side. With experience, you will be able to determin the recording side no matter what the formula, but usually just use it as spooled, as it will most likey be correct, just make sure you thread the machine right.

 

[Grainger49]

IIRC, it was Scotch 501 that had a dull backing. It had a very shiny oxide coating. Older tapes, often with brown oxide coatings had duller finishes on the oxide than on the backing.

If you get it backward you will know.

 

[Aage]

That may well be, I don't recall Scotch 501. However, in my ongoing "under the stairs" cleanup, I came across a box of tapes yesterday, and sure enough, there were some Scotch 206 (1200') and 207 (1800') in it, so I opened up a 206 just to see and sure enough: it was obviously back-coated.

The box contained a variety of the high-end tapes that were selling back then, and I mean to take some photos and show them, if only for those interested in the aged, but in some cases beautiful, packaging.

The most fanciful box I have is a 10½" Scotch Brand one, and it sports a B&W photo on the front of some '50s-looking guys in a recording studio, all with instruments or cables in their hands. I'll have to see where I put that box, if I find it, I'll snap a shot of it, too. It has a NAB metal insert in the middle of the box, so was clearly for studio or high-end home use.

 

[StevieDude]

It depends on the brand. Some tapes are backcoated and are flat black on one side and semi gloss brown on another. In that case the tape's brown side is the recording side. Other tapes are not back coated and are shiney on one side and dull on the other. In that case the duller side is the recording side. With experience, you will be able to determin the recording side no matter what the formula, but usually just use it as spooled, as it will most likey be correct, just make sure you thread the machine right.

Vincei, thanks for the info! :thmbsp: My nos Quantegy is as you said, semi glossy on the side that meets the heads and dull black on the the back side. I should have used the term semi in my post before!

 

[Jay Pemberton]

Scotch 206 and its 1 mil version 207 were introduced in 1969 and were the first back-coated tapes made. They have the black oxide similar to that used on the earlier 201/202/203 Dynarange series. Back in the 1970s I saw some Scotch NAB reels in a studio on which there was a warning sticker saying something to the effect of 'BACK COATED TAPE/RECORD ON SHINY SIDE.'. Previous wisdom had always stipulated to record on the dull side of the tape.

 

[Susurus]

What does backcoated mean? Is the coating shiny or dull? When I coat my car, it's shiny. :scratch2:

Recently got a cache of Ampex 406 reels (hooray!) so I really want to know.

But I want the best way, not some rumor or conventional wisdom that might apply in my special case. Don't be offended--I don't even trust the manufacturer to make the best decision... So of course I don't trust how they are now... recorded "Shiny side to the head". (brown shiny, not dark dull side).

So for me the only way is to test both sides and see if one side loses high frequency. If that means I clean the heads/rollers/capstans after every reel, fine with me. If one side takes the recording level easier, that's one big clue, but frequency range trumps that.

Really 1.5 mil tape is mighty thin compared with the containment of the magnetic fields, so much saturation is still going to happen through both sides, through all layers, even if it's in there upside down or sideways.

This is for my RT-707 at 7.5; I always bulk erase first (so the previous side recorded won't matter). I'm talking about getting a DBX-224x ser. II unit for it.

Maybe the shiny side doesn't wear down the heads as fast? I've never seen a cassette record on the shinier side but oh well.

.

 

[Cadillac Kid]

With 406 the darker faces out. Ampex 406 is notorious for 'sticky shed' and may clog up the heads. Check for a tar-like goo on the heads and guides.

qft