Technics SL-1210 M5G Turntable...Thoughts and opinions on its sonics

While the syringe full of oil from KAB is somewhat handy, there are definitely cheaper sources based on the quantity you buy.

It's worth mentioning that after using the KAB syringe, what was left over eventually leaked out and would have made a huge mess except for the fact that I'd wrapped it up in plastic wrap.
Truth is, you're probably better off throwing the left-over oil in the trash.

However, if you have a plastic bottle full which is actually re-sealable, that's a different story.
 
Last edited:
Exactly what fluid do you put in that trough? I have a SME with a damper trough just like the one shown. Mine has been empty ever since I purchase the table, and I would love to check it out by putting some fluid in it. Do you try different weight fluids or is their just one specific weight of what it takes, I am guessing some kind of oil from a hobby shop?

I would like to say your table looks great, like new, glad the seller packaged it well. It would have be a real shame if some damage would have occurred considering how perfect it looks. Glad your pleased with it's performance.
Hi Ken!

Yeah, I was holding my breath as I unpacked it. It's in like new condition. The dust cover has a few very faint swirls on it, otherwise very clear.
Thanks, Glenn
 
I also found 60K cst silicone oil at my local hobby shop for $4 or $5 (I would say that bought a "lifetime supply" bottle :)), it's pretty easy to get, especially if your town has a shop dealing with RC cars and the like.
 
I also found 60K cst silicone oil at my local hobby shop for $4 or $5 (I would say that bought a "lifetime supply" bottle :)), it's pretty easy to get, especially if your town has a shop dealing with RC cars and the like.
Unfortunately the day of local hobby shops is long gone for most of us. Mostly all mail order now.
I flew R/C airplanes for over 20 years with my dad. There were several good hobby shops in nearby towns. Loved to go to them.
 
The KAB offering is well packaged, easy to use, and it will last you - say - 5 years of normal use. For most everyone, it is a great way to go.
 
I go to Frankenfest, and other AK gatherings. If I decide to buy the fluid damper, and decide to bring the 1210 to a gathering, I would have to empty the trough for traveling, refill it at the fest, empty for the trip home, and refill. Something I need to consider if I buy one.
 
The KAB offering is well packaged, easy to use, and it will last you - say - 5 years of normal use. For most everyone, it is a great way to go.

+1 Maybe even a lifetime. I filled my trough (half-way) seven years ago and still have half the syringe left. It does not evaporate.

Not my experience. All of the leftover oil leaked out within a short period of time....maybe three months.
 
I got some listening time yesterday for several hours, and this table is fantastic!
The build quality is to me just amazing. I still can't get over the condition of this table for the price.

A big thanks to mprince who was kind enough to send me a couple acrylic mats to experiment with. I wasn't able to really crank it though, wife was doing some work, so I couldn't really hear much difference between just the rubber mat, and the two acrylic mats. More testing is needed.
 
I've been listening to this fabulous table and loving it. The ZU cart is amazing!
I've been experimenting with the acrylic platters, and still not hearing much difference between the two, or the stock (thin) rubber mat. I just bought an original thick ma=t off the bay. Curious to see if there's any effect on sound. At least the thick mat will help with VTA.
 
I find it interesting that in the design of the $4000 SL-1200GAE, the rubber mat looks to be unchanged from the SL-1200. Must be the engineers thought it's hard to improve upon. (Although, I've never handled one to see if the hardness is similar.)
 
A mat is not required to adjust 'VTA' on the SL-1200.
There were three different mats through out the years that came with the SL-1200XX since it began using quartz speed control. They not only vary slightly in thickness but, vary in weight also.
 
Last edited:
A mat is not required to adjust 'VTA' on the SL-1200.
There were three different mats through out the years that came with the SL-1200XX since it began using quartz speed control. They not only vary slightly in thickness but, vary in weight also.

I found this out to hard way, bought 2 mint condition later sl-1200 mats. Significantly thinner than the mk1 mats I had. I decided to painstakingly clean the glue and felt the previous owner stuck to the bottom of the mk1 mat on the TT I bought.
 
The newer since 1979, SL-1200mk2 tables have a simple and easy way to adjust tone arm height, maybe even on the fly adjustment, why do some folks seemingly not know that fact? Back in the seventies at the peak of vinyl-dom, all we had were a couple of magazines for information or if you had the good graces of having many hi-fi stores nearby though, many salesman weren't willing to hand over info, they just wanted you to buy at your own peril. Today we have the web with all kinds of knowledge to gain by reading. Caution is advised to be selective though.
Regarding the newer SL1200 and OP's question. Sonics are generally difficult to determine unless everything is up to snuff. Is the set-up transparent enough to reveal such differences?

Initially only the cartridge will determine any character or nuance or differences. Honestly, the more I spent on better cartridges and being diligent about vinyl care, the better the sonics that were realized. Generally, it's the whole-package that'll determine what one hears. There's also the school of thought that was reported to me over at Audiogon about my Kleos cart.would never realize it's full potential with a SME on a SL-1200 and my pre-amp would limit what I heard. I don't reside on those lofty peaks of super high quality and super-expensive systems as many on that site do. I was out-classed and had no retort.
System synergy is another possible answer. To me the SL-1200 is a very good sounding table from the first iteration and obviously to the recent new models. It's really dependent on the cartridge, arm, and accuracy of set-up. Then it's cables, pre-amp, amp, speaker placement, and of course the ultimate arbiter, the listening room acoustics. If the equipment is generally decent, the room and listening position will make a big difference. With-in that whole group, a clean high quality recording will be a major source of what listening quality is heard. Differences can be pursued in every aspect of any given system as a deterrent or enabler of quality sound. One tremendous leap for me was buying into moving-coil cartridges. I went from Denon DL-301II which at the time was an ear opener for me, then to a Micro-Benz ACE SL to a Ortofon Cadenza Blue but, the real deal was very apparent when I purchased a Lyra Delos. Sound wise, it's the highest I've achieved to date. The word 'sonics' took on a whole new meaning. I prefer it to the Kleos as many others would agree to. When I spoke via the net to the actual cart's designer he sort of agreed though also stated that my system as a whole may have been too old to show the Kleo's better traits. I'm still on the fence about that one but as I feel I may be able to squeeze more out of it.
I understand a newer more costly system is really the difference at hand.


I use SL-1200mk1's and SL-1100's, and Thorens TD125 tables with SME 3009 Pre-Approved, Jelco 750D, Dynavector 505 and a modded Grace 840 arms and I have no options but to adjust 'VTA' manually with the arm shaft's set-screw in a trial and error method and then further correct by ear. I use clear straight line citing tools and by critical viewing can hone in parallel lines for the arm to disk VTA.

Regarding mats, the original SL-1200mk1 came with a 3.5mm mat and although I tried other thicker rubber mats, cork mats, herbies mat, it actually sounds better with it's dedicated 3.5mm mat as compared to the SL-1200mk2
1/4 inch mat and others that I tried on it. I have to believe that the original design engineers already did their work correctly.
When I modded the Grace 840 arm to run with my SL-1100's, I had to experiment in finding which mats could raise the platter high enough and still provide good performance due to the arms inability to go any lower as the VTA was simply too high. All the while taking into consideration that some cartridges sound best with the tail up, some better with the tail down, so it was a multifaceted testing period. I was using a Ortofon Cadenza Blue, a $2,000. cartridge and sadly it took a fair amount of rough handling to its ruby cantilever through out all of the testing. Luckily it has survived. It ended up with a total measurement of 1/2 inches forcing me to use the 1/4 original Technics mk2 mat along with 5.2mm of additional cork mats below it to get to 1/2 inches of mat to perform at cartridge's and arm's best. Sure, the spindle is barely visible but, I have achieved the proper 'VTA' and thus very high quality sound and still able to use a 650 gm weight but a clamp I can't. I'm happy that the cartridge now sounds better than it ever has and I'm very happy even though I was forced to make concessions. I'm also happy that the amount of mats that I did use did not over-damp of deaden the sound quality that I'm receiving right now. In time, I will be even more critical, though I feel it's really good to excellent quality sound despite my doubts. Actually, I'm pretty proud of my efforts, please somebody pat me on the back. Oh, back biter.*
*Stooges.

Below is pictured my SL-120's and a shot of my Grace modded arm on a SL-1100 table that get my juices flowing. Regarding the inexpensive Stanton head shells I use; I use them because a number of years ago, they were plentiful and enabled me a consistency of 'over-hang' with all of my cartridges. At 8.5gms, they suffice however since, I've purchased a number of 'Orsonic' head shells at 9.5gms, thus robot looking ones from years ago and I'm slowly converting all of my cartridges to these heavier head shells.
If anyone told me this back in the early to mid-seventies, I say you're nuts as light weight tracking forces were the norm. In 1974 I had my new Shure Type III doing very well at 1.25gms and less, thank you. These days I'm tracking at 2 to 2.54 gms as typical with some MC cartridges. And my Delos hates me if it's not exactly 1.75gms, you go figure. But, it paints so many beautiful pictures for me, I'm never contrary to its needs.
Higher performance cartridges require heavier arms and head shells. I've been down the less costly cartridge route many years ago while growing in this endeavor and in order to achieve high performance/better and more realistic sounding music, one must embrace the fact that if one is going to enjoy vinyl quality to its fullest, one must have a better cartridge and arm.
And no forgetting it, absolutely clean vinyl. If you already cleaned the disk and it is worn, it's worn, deal with that, or find another copy.

With over 7000 new and used vinyl disks, ultrasonic cleaning and vpi brush and vacuum cleaning method machines, I felt compelled to do this whole thing correctly, not half-baked as some would have you believe is the way to go or just as acceptable, because it's not. I personally can attest that it's easier to defend what you have than admit that there must be something better. I'm certain that there are folks out there that would laugh at what I have compared to their better systems. And though I feel not many vintage systems can best mine, though I know there will always be something better out there. It's called life on this planet and as such, quite natural.

The internet is over flowing with examples incorrect, unqualified or inexperienced opinions and perceptions out there and it burns me to read all of the big mouth blabbering and back-patting. It makes more sense to weed out the non-cognoscenti view points and do this hobby the correct way while we're still able to, before age won't allow any of us to even place the stylus on the disk. Recorded music listening can represent and should be a happy moment while doing it. An accurate set-up of quality equipment is necessary to realize this all the while knowing that everything is relative.
My Photos:
3.jpeg CIMG2092 copy copy.jpgModded Grace F840 arm. New sliding base and counter-weight I fashioned on SL-1100 + custom arm board.

Below: My first table in late 1967, a Garrard 40B which I thought was good for only a very short time, luckily, I grew to understand I had a long road to follow. It was all I could afford then being 18 years old working on Wall St. Twelve months later I found myself in the military having no hi-fi fun to enjoy at all.
With a Shure M3D cartridge I input that into a Dynaco PAS-3X, Dynaco ST-35 and two 12 inch speakers and two 7 inch exponential horns I mounted in two pre-made generic wood cabinets bought on Cortland St. on 'radio-row' in Manhattan. I thought I had joined the hi-fi world and was going strong, as J.C. once said; "Top of the World Mamma". If you'd like to laugh, I still have all of the above in sealed boxes in storage somewhere. Oh my.
Not my photo: my first bought in 1967.jpeg
In closing all I can really say I'm happy that the 'vinyl resurgence' is in full swing and that many folks are enjoying its virtues. The more folks buy vinyl, the more titles and almost forgotten musical pieces seem to be available to the public once more. Posts on this site and others are a good forecaster of what is to follow.
Me, I've gone hog-wild and added many disks to my lacking jazz collection so I'm enjoying jazz that was not available in years is suddenly available. My prog-rock shelves are full as is my classical collection. It is the jazz records coming out re-mastered that I'm having a ball with presently. Because of it, it's enabled an easier time at tuning my system to it's maximum. Generally, three or so instruments are easier to listen to in terms of comparing what sounds my system is producing. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone, everywhere. Verbos-ity is my middle name.
FM
 
Last edited:
The newer since 1979, SL-1200mk2 tables have a simple and easy way to adjust tone arm height, maybe even on the fly adjustment, why do some folks seemingly not know that fact?

I use SL-1200mk1's and SL-1100's, and Thorens TD125 tables with SME 3009 Pre-Approved, Jelco 750D, Dynavector 505 and a modded Grace 840 arms and I have no options but to adjust 'VTA' manually with the arm shaft's set-screw in a trial and error method and then further correct by ear. The vinyl resurgence has been going strong now since 2005 and it seems that late comers are lagging behind and probably playing unclean records as well, why is that?

Regarding mats, the SL-1200mk1 came with a 3.5mm mat and although I tried other thicker rubber mats, cork mats, herbies mat, it actually sounds better with it's dedicated 3.5mm mat as compared to the SL-1200mk2 1/4 inch mat and others that I tried on it. I have to believe that the original design engineers already did their work correctly.
When I modded the Grace 840 arm to run with my SL-1100's, I had to experiment nearly a week in finding which mats could raise the platter high enough and still provide good performance due to the arms inability to go any lower as the VTA was simply too high. All the while taking into consideration that some cartridges sound best with the tail up, some better with the tail down, so it was a multifaceted testing period. I was using a Ortofon Cadenza Blue, a $2,000. cartridge and sadly it took a fair amount of rough handling to its ruby cantilever through out all of the testing. Luckily it has survived. It ended up with a total measurement of 1/2 inches forcing me to use the 1/4 original Technics mk2 mat along with 5.2mm of additional cork mats below it to get to 1/2 inches of mat to perform at cartridge's and arm's best. Sure, the spindle is barely visible but, I have achieved the proper 'VTA' and thus very high quality sound and still able to use a 650 gm weight but a clamp I can't. I'm happy the that cartridge now sounds better than it ever has and I'm very happy even though I was forced to make so unethical concessions. I'm also happy that the amount of mats that I did use did not over-damp of deaden the sound quality that I'm receiving right now but, now that it's all O.K. and sounds fine, I will be even more critical, though I feel it's really good to excellent quality sound despite my doubts.

Below are pictured the SL-120's and a shot of the Grace modded arm on a SL-1100 table. Regarding the inexpensive Stanton head shells; I use them because a number of years ago, they were plentiful and enabled me consistency of 'over-hang' with all of my cartridges. At 8.5gms, they suffice however, since I've purchased a number of 'Orsonic' head shells at 9.5gms and I'm slowly converting all of my cartridges to the heavier head shells. If anyone told me this back in the early to mid-seventies, I say you're nuts as light weight tracking forces were the norm. In 1974 I had my new Shure Type III doing very well at 1.25gms.
Higher performance cartridges require heavier arms and head shells. I've been down the less costly cartridge route many years ago while growing in this endeavor and in order to achieve high performance/better and more realistic sounding music, one must embrace the fact that if one is going to enjoy vinyl quality to its fullest, one must have a better cartridge and arm. There's no sense in bragging about the lesser cartridges as most folks who know are already aware of the limitations they present and the lesser quality of listening enjoyment that they offer.

With over 7000 new and used vinyl disks, ultrasonic cleaning and vpi brush and vacuum cleaning method machines, I felt compelled to do this whole thing correctly, not half-baked as some would have you believe is way to go or acceptable because it's not. I personally can attest that it's easier to defend what you have than admit that there must be something better. I'm certain that there are folks out there that would laugh at what I have compared to their better systems. And though I feel not many vintage systems can approach mine, I know there will always be something better out there than mine. It's called life on this planet.

The internet is over flowing with examples of newbie and incorrect, unqualified or inexperienced opinions and perceptions out there and it burns me to read all of the blabbering and back-patting. It makes more sense to weed out the non-cognoscenti view points and do this hobby the correct way while we're still able to, before old-age won't allow any of us to even place the stylus on the disk. Recorded music listening can represent and should be a happy moment while doing it. An accurate set-up of quality equipment is necessary to realize this all the while knowing that everything is relative but always striving for the better moments.

View attachment 1071370 View attachment 1071371Modded Grace F840 arm.New sliding base and calculated counter-weight.
FM

Its a good thing you didnt try to insult anyone with that post. :cool:

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mr. Pig, I'm a kitten.
If you had bothered to read the whole thread you would have known the issue with VTA the OP is having is the cartridge installed isn't tall enough even ot the arms lowest setting. I usually just shim the cartridge, the OP decided to go a different route, a thicker mat.
 
Back
Top Bottom