The Fisher Phono Preamp, and RIAA

Sorry for the late reply. Everyone is one the right track here. The new network is literally a drop in fit for any of the old ones (PEC or discrete) in virtually ANY piece of Fisher stereo gear that has a magnetic phono preamp on board. Therefore, all of their applicable pieces will benefit from the new network for greatly increased RIAA accuracy.

Fisher did "fiddle" with the basic phono preamp design over the years, but all of this amounted to little if any ado. The vast lion's share of response shaping is created by the feedback network employed, so regardless of whatever other small changes you might see in a particular unit, the new network is still a drop in fit as is.

One other thing I'll pass along: George contacted me last evening to say that his continuing efforts with this (to produce high accuracy modeling for 12AX7 circuit design -- my insertion here) uncovered one additional slight glitch in the software used for this modeling exercise -- one that only affected response at the lowest frequencies. As a result, the response from his model is now a virtual carbon copy of my real world measurements produced from my working unit -- even right down to 20 Hz, which is quite incredible. The maximum deviation between his model results and my real world measurements from the new network are maintained within just .18 db now, across the entire 20 Hz to 20 kHz audio spectrum. This kind of adherence between modern CAD based vacuum tube circuit design and real world measured performance involving highly stylized EQ responses is exceedingly rare.

Understand that George is using one of the most widely recognized and accepted modeling programs out there to run these modeling exercises on. And yet, he has had to introduce a number of adjustments just to it to make it properly recognize accurate operation of the amplification stages used in the Fisher preamp design. It is this kind of required attention to detail that is absolutely necessary if modeling is going to be used to support vacuum tube circuit development work. If that level of attention is not employed, it would be much better to not use any modeling at all, as it can easily and unknowingly steer you in the wrong direction very quickly. It's the reason that I continue to be quite skeptical of the typical modeling results that are slung out there, while at the same time, utterly amazed at what it can accomplish in the hands of a truly skilled individual. We are all indebted to his contribution in this project.

Dave
 
Thanks for the replies, I can find 1% resistors with no trouble, but silver mica caps seem to be 5% at best would they be good enough?

If you have any Mouser parts numbers I'm pretty certain we can use them in the UK all ok.

Thanks David
 
NotDigital.

800-C with PEC's listed. The 500-C may be slightly different with regard to location of the PHONO PEC's. But the part # on them is the same. The Tone control pecs should be the same place on 500 and 800-C.

This is pre Surgery. I've got one of a post surgery with the FULL PEC replacement. If I find it I'll post it up.
100_3838 modded.JPG

BTW I like my fish Pan Fried in Butter with a little Tabasco.
 
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Thanks Larry. When I posted this morning I had just returned from slapping the water for stripers all night. I've managed to get a couple of hours sleep :boring: and my head is clearer now. I've re-read Dave's post and I'm on board on what to do :D

Before I left on vacation I built a jig for my LP12 to get that stupid bouncy thing right. Once that's done I'll be attacking the Fisher phono mods big time with Sony's cap change and, of course, Dave's latest refinement which is spectacularly simple. Thanks Dave :thmbsp: :thmbsp:

Small favor if it's possible: If anyone has an 800c or 500c opened up can you post a pic of the PEC's in question. That is if it's already opened up (or will be soon) for surgery. I'll be away for for another 3 to 5 days and I want to begin visualizing what/where/how to attack. I know it's crazy, but hey, between hooking a slob and working on the Fisher I want my aging brain to be happily busy with anticipation :D


Not Digital,

Please be careful with adjusting the Linn, I got a nice shock one day
when I touched the Valhalla board. I was never able to get it right but
now you have to turn those springs a certain way to get it to bounce
right, it's like a perfect piston effect. If you need help I'm in New York
and close. Dave and Larry thanks for the info on the new PEC this
should be good.

Tube
 
Tube:

I Lingo'd my TT a few years ago. And more years ago yet, I learned to NEVER work on anything that's plugged in. It's almost like your first bad drunkin' experience :puke2:

Anyway, my TT has been mothballed for almost 10 years. I'm just breaking it out. Hopefully it'll just need a tune here and there. And yes, those spring/grommet combos are a pain. When I first got it I managed to get it right. Hopefully it'll come back to me. Thanks for the offer :thmbsp:
 
In Maryland those would be considered throw-backs. You can't keep anything under 32" IIRC. If you did the fine would be more than the 800C, AND the LINN are worth, per fish.
 
NY, NJ & Mass have a 28" 2 fish limit now. A few years back it was 36" The scientists and others who had a say acknowledged that there was a very positive rebound in the "Hudson" stock and dropped the size and count limit.

Down in your neck of the woods it has always been a bit more complicated given it is a different stock (supposedly.) I remember going down to the Chesapeake for a long weekend of fishing a few years back. Getting licensed and learning the regs was like studying for the bar!! It depended on where, when and how you were fishing. In any case, currently I think the "summer" season in Md. is 2 fish, 18-28.
 
Hiya,

Fisher threads sidetracked into Fishing Talk .. who woulda thunk .. :)

Frannie
 
This is a great thread Dave. My new plan is to make these phono section changes on my KX-100 when I'm finished with the can cap restuffs and the grid stopper resistor installation. This little amp may turn out to be quite a great pickup, I'll be pitting it against my main amp/preamp setup when I'm done and see how it compares! Thanks Dave and everyone for the great info and assistance always found here.
 
You have managed to whittle the response deviation down to almost nothing. Not just flavor it with this cap or that cap. A monumental achievment, thanks for laying it all out so clearly for us.

Do not discount the Vitamin Q & K40Y-9 upgrade. That is a large change in performance to date from a master recording engineer to musicians, music teachers plus others with trained ears.

The RIAA revision is icing on the cake. Every inch adds up.
 
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Awesome. Thanks Dave for once again sharing your findings. What's the lowest wattage/voltage the RIAA parts should be in this stage?
 
Hi Danny -- You can use the lowest voltage/wattage rated components you can find -- which is really a plus in this case. Such components are physically quite small, and can not only fit around the selector switch or designated area of the factory components (PEC or otherwise), but also will have much less chance of electrical interaction with other components due to their small size as well.

Dave
 
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