The horror of mono in stereo demonstrated
I'll try phones, but my computer system is pretty good. Apple with a Audient interface feeding Neumann powered monitors. I'll make note of what to listen for. Thanks.
btw, my preamp inn my vinyl system has a mono switch...and I think I only have one or two mono albums anyway (good ones though).
Not the same as eliminating the distortions from the input signal in the first place by selecting mono for mono records.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I have a bunch of mono recordings. For me, mono is to music what black and white is for photography. They are both, in a real way, "abstract art" by definition, only music less so, because of how acoustics work. Often, people don't even know they are listening to a mono recording. You ALWAYS know when a photo is black and white.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
What specific distortion are you referring to?
Refer to @tubewade 's reply #10 on the previous page.
On a scope you can see the distortion artifacts playing a mono record in stereo. In mono, these are virtually eliminated.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
Thanks! Now I know why my pre-amp has not only a mono switch, but left only mono and right only mono. I need to try it out on a mono recording.
Thanks! Now I know why my pre-amp has not only a mono switch, but left only mono and right only mono. I need to try it out on a mono recording.
As an aside, a pure mono signal appears as a straight line at a 45 deg angle on the scope. When playing a mono record in stereo mode, phase distortions cause the line to appear blurred. Switching to mono cancels these which appears as a straight line on the scope. Noise is reduced and the mono image is a bit more focused.
As to the stereo mode switch on some equipment, ie L>L&R, R>L&R - my understanding this is used in cases of mono R-T-R tapes made where the recording lands on one side or the other of a tape head when played on a stereo machine. The selector is then used to pick the side where the recorded signal is present.
I'm not aware of any mono records where only one channel would appear when played with a stereo cartridge but there may well be some.
Ok, so I have Dave Brubeck MONO playing now. Yes, the noise reduction effect is pretty cool. As 62caddy pointed out above, cancellation seems to need to be done early in the transduction cycle (with the MONO button), by the time the STEREO mono signals come to my ears, the noise does not cancel like I thought it would (based on how transaural acoustic crosstalk cancellation is supposed to work).
Ok, so I have Dave Brubeck MONO playing now. Yes, the noise reduction effect is pretty cool. As 62caddy pointed out above, cancellation seems to need to be done early in the transduction cycle (with the MONO button), by the time the STEREO mono signals come to my ears, the noise does not cancel like I thought it would (based on how transaural acoustic crosstalk cancellation is supposed to work).
Ha. When my brother and sister in law were in visiting over the holidays, they brought a Dave Brubeck album they wanted to hear on my system. (She's a major DB fan). I mentioned it was a mono record and she asked, what's that? lol
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I saw that on the jacket too. I think it refers to the recording being "hi fi" - therefore would sound better on a good system rather than due to the fact of being a two-channel system.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
That picture implies both channels are equally affected, but tracking imperfections could cause them to cancel each other out. Sounds like the solution is to listen to the signal from one channel or the other, but not both.Ok, so I have Dave Brubeck MONO playing now. Yes, the noise reduction effect is pretty cool. As 62caddy pointed out above, cancellation seems to need to be done early in the transduction cycle (with the MONO button), by the time the STEREO mono signals come to my ears, the noise does not cancel like I thought it would (based on how transaural acoustic crosstalk cancellation is supposed to work).
tubewade
Super Member
Perhaps the most significant benefit is the cancellation of rumble, which is entirely vertical, physically cut into the record itself back in the early days on primitive lathes. There wasn't much concern about that at the time because playback equipment of those days could not reproduce it and it was a non-issue. Even then record players had a lot of inbuilt rumble and no one noticed because the systems were not very wide range and vertical motion was in the pickup cartridge already 30dB down from the signal we wanted to hear. Problems came when people tried to convert those mono record players to stereo, however. Their rumble performance was far too poor for stereo use and this meant doom for some companies like Webster/ Webcor who never could get their rumble to an acceptable level.
One can use the "either/or" approach and that is helpful at times, but there is no rumble cancellation with this approach, so it really matters most whether you need the rumble cancellation or the selection of the best sounding groove wall in the event that the record has been damaged in the past.
For those that can't hear the difference or only have a few monaural records, I wouldn't bother. But for those of us that can hear the difference and have vast collections including many 1940s, '50s and '60s monaural records (I collect 45 rpm singles, mostly mono) it can be well worth paying attention to, just like any other detail of phono playback.
One can use the "either/or" approach and that is helpful at times, but there is no rumble cancellation with this approach, so it really matters most whether you need the rumble cancellation or the selection of the best sounding groove wall in the event that the record has been damaged in the past.
For those that can't hear the difference or only have a few monaural records, I wouldn't bother. But for those of us that can hear the difference and have vast collections including many 1940s, '50s and '60s monaural records (I collect 45 rpm singles, mostly mono) it can be well worth paying attention to, just like any other detail of phono playback.
timmy.timmy
Well-Known Member
Evidently we're definitely not all born equal or raised evenly ear wise... For example this should explain the too often sterile and volatile discussions between those whose preferences for "higher end" cables claim to ear those differences where others can only scream "snake oil". So we not only have different earbuds, but capacities and sensitivities as well. Then there is (wo)men's worse handicap for any tolerant approach in understanding of the yet unknown ; pride & assertiveness in his/her phono gear and intelligence.
Not that this is your case evidently, but for you to say that it's not really bothering on headphones then should be even less noticeable on speakers is something I can't agree with. These "noises" even through speakers can 1) bring distortions in the higher frequencies 2) act like a "veil" not allowing a good to better "focus" on the music 3) and finally "hide" the depth in sound that should allow to create a 2-D or even 3-D imagery in sound. My vintage MONO records do already suffer from wear to inflict them improper groove retrieval.
On my old lap top fitted with powered speakers and a sub (both given to me), so nothing fancy, I instantly heard the differences between both sound clips presented here. Admit-ably I am a MONO guy that knows what he wants. MONO grove retrieval is very important to me since I do do play and listen to my beloved vintage MONO 45rpm records. I do understand the sound technicians who needs to hear with headphones for a better "visibility" of the details, as it is their job. Still I truly prefer the music that fills the room when the acoustic allows to get "that". My playback sound is of the neutral, clear and dynamic kind so I do get a lot of details out of my speakers. And there those noises are a nuisance.
It took me ages to gather my Ri-Fi phono gear as it is today to get that right-fidelity playback. If some can live with a MONO switch in their chain, good for them. As far as I can remember, that is long ago, such switch on the amps I heard took off all dynamic from the signal as well. Maybe such switch in some preamps are better at that... So I embarked on a quest in the technical understanding of what is required for the right phono gear to do justice to my beloved MONO 45rpm's. Since I have learn to work-out, build and tweak my phono chain on and around my MONO cartridge. This not to impair as much as possible the cartridge micro volt signal and on the contrary in how to "improve" it's rendition in musicality.
