The Quest for The KEF… Reference 107!

I'm always delighted to hear from another KEF 107 convert. Congratulations on your quest, I'm sure you'll love them for years!
I've been a happy 107/2 owner since replacing my AR9s back in the '90s. I just went though the re-foaming process a couple years ago... the only thing they've needed, other than oiling the teak finish - a labor of love! I'm a huge 'stat guy, but always like to have a cone based system as well, for "big sound & dynamics", and the KEFs have been exceptional for 20 years in that roll. I expect them to out live me, at most I may live to replace the surrounds again.

It's ironic that you replaced DCM TF700 with 107s, I have a pair of those too! An underrated speaker in my opinion.

I'd say "enjoy them", but I'm sure you already are, so I'll just say "well played".
 

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I'm always delighted to hear from another KEF 107 convert. Congratulations on your quest, I'm sure you'll love them for years!
I've been a happy 107/2 owner since replacing my AR9s back in the '90s. I just went though the re-foaming process a couple years ago... the only thing they've needed, other than oiling the teak finish - a labor of love! I'm a huge 'stat guy, but always like to have a cone based system as well, for "big sound & dynamics", and the KEFs have been exceptional for 20 years in that roll. I expect them to out live me, at most I may live to replace the surrounds again.

It's ironic that you replaced DCM TF700 with 107s, I have a pair of those too! An underrated speaker in my opinion.

I'd say "enjoy them", but I'm sure you already are, so I'll just say "well played".


":thmbsp:"
 
Hey SS, very nice thread. But only a 14 hr drive to get your grail speakers?? Come on! :D

Not sure how I've missed this thread until tonight. Must have been too busy working on my own restore the last couple months. In any case, congrats! I know exactly how you feel, so close, but not quite there yet. All worth it in the end and after going through it all, they sound just that much sweeter.
 
I'd say "enjoy them", but I'm sure you already are, so I'll just say "well played".

Well put Frommer! You got a Big Ol' Smile out of me! :music: Nice room by the way!

I know exactly how you feel, so close, but not quite there yet. All worth it in the end and after going through it all, they sound just that much sweeter.

And thanks AudioFan... I know what you went through is way more complex than replacing some foam surrounds! Congrats on not only what you scored, but what you restored! Guys like you and Rotary (and I'm sure others) are the real inspiration in this "hobby"!
 
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SM... I got a reply back from OC. What they used is a "Latex Based Glue" meant for paper cones. This is a link to the product.

Because of the previous "repair", they wanted to "clean up" the bonding marks so they "extended" the glue range. They say it has no impact on the cone itself because it is very flexible and lightweight latex. Basically they wanted it to look "professional" which I think they did an awesome job of.

Unfortunately, I don't believe this will work on Bextrene.
 
Simply Sound thanks for finding that out. Always eager to learn something new.
I think oil based speaker damping compounds are a thing of the past. I think Parts Express may have sold an acryllic damping compound for paper cones to give the wet look. Glad you got the drivers restored. I am sure you will have some good listening.
 
The Details are in the Design

Well, I'm starting to get comfortable with this setup so time for some thoughts. Before I talk about the sound, it might be a good thing to go over the design of the KEF R107's a bit.

As shown early in this post, the R107 is designed around a "Coupled-Cavity Bass" enclosure. I say "designed around" it because I truly believe it is an integral part of the "sound". But before I throw out my thoughts on that, let's start with the heads.

As many probably precieve, the heads are what I would call LS3/5a's the way KEF would have built them if they didn't have to conform to the BBC standards. Plain and simple. Ok, not so simple!

The heads have individual enclosures for each driver and are incredible well damped (some sort of gel in the walls of the plastic enclosure). They are time aligned, and although the LS3/5a tweeter was positioned outside of the baffle and ahead of the B110 bass driver, the R105/107 heads are clearly an engineering advancement when it comes to phase alignment! To me these represent developoment based on KEF's computerized analysis that I'm sure moved the goal post forward for accurate reproduction of the mid and upper frequencies.

Have I ever heard an LS3/5a? Well no... but I'm willing to bet that the cohesion and dispersion of the R105/107 heads would rival the LS3/5a's. And that is where we start! Increadible clean, clear, mid to high end frequencies that are well balanced and beautifully projected.

So why do I say the coupled-cavity bass is what the system was designed around? Well there's something really special happening here with how the bass frequencies interact with the mid-high frequency heads.

You can easily be distracted by the two 12" woofers coupled together but acting in opposition with a dampening rod between them. You can also get deep into the Kube and how it allows for the extension and contouring of the Bass Response to the room.

But I think the magic is in the fact that KEF designed the Bass Port to exit right in front of the heads!

Now I don't pretend to fully understand what happens to a mid-high frequency audio wave when it is washed by a bass wave coming out of a port in front of it. But I think Dick Osher of Stereophile nailed it when he said; "Music emerges from the 107 like ripples in a clear mountain lake."

My impression is that this is truly a speaker that "disappears" in the true sense of the word. You don't preceive the the music as coming from a point source, but rather as a front... ok a stage! A truly floating stage! I think the best impression I have of the sound from this system is that it floats in front of you rather than being projected at you. And this is particularly true of the Bass frequencies! They just hang there surrounding you. Pretty damn impressive!

Again, I think the magic is really in that port design. Well OK... it probably is the overall system. But how that port was implemented I think holds the key to much of the magic that comes from these speakers.

I have some other thoughts on the sound that the R107's craft together, but before I do that, I think I'll listen to some more music! :thmbsp:
 
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Gotta do some Morphine!

OK, if your going to evaluate a pair of KEF R107's, Morphine is certainly in order. Intrevenously, smoking it, up the nose or on the CD Player. Ya gotta do it!

We all have our reference CD's for evaluating certain features of our systems. For Bass, I use Morphine - Like Swimming. It has that deep somewhat over amplified sound from the Double Bass and Baritone Sax that will let you know just how well your system can control those lower octaves!

But it still maintains a certain "acoustic" or should I say "organic" feel about it, especially in the vocal registers. I am using it now to evaluate this pair of KEF's and to tell you the truth! I never felt better! :thmbsp: More to come.....

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A word about the K-UBE!

REQUIRED! :yes:

The K-UBE (KEF Universal Bass Equalizer) is, as it is described, an equalizer for the lower Octaves. Some say that it doesn't matter if you have the K-UBE or not and some go so far as to say not to use it if you have it because it "clouds" the Mid-to-High Frequencies.

Well if you don't care to listen to the Bass below 50Hz and you don't care about how controlled that Bass is, knock yourself out! I've heard the difference and to those who suggest the above, I think you're on crack and not Morphine! :scratch2:

The K-UBE adds a whole other dimension to these speakers. When I first got these repaired, I hooked them up without the K-UBE and I was a little disappointed in what all the fuss was about. I mean they sounded fine, but not over the top great! Then I put the K-UBE inline and followed the directions. +1db on the Contour and of course +4 on the Extension for doing Morphine and WOW! We got some Bass....

I'll talk more about that in the next post, but the short answer is if you don't have or don't use the K-UBE, you are short changing this speaker in a BIG way!

Here's the directions from the manual for those who wonder....

Set all three rotary controls on the front panel of K-UBE with the dot on the knob at 12 o'clock, and the tone controls on your amplifier 'flat'. For best results adjust the controls in the following order. Resist the temptation to adjust Extension or Q-factor whilst setting Contour - you are likely to end up with a confused and incorrect result.

USING THE CONTROLS: CONTOUR
All speakers interact both with the room in which they are used, and with their position within that room. It is unlikely that any speaker can sound equally well in all rooms, and certainly not in all positions. K-UBE's Contour control is designed to allow you to optimise Model 107 for your listening room and preferred sound balance. It does this by raising or lowering the frequencies below about 160Hz by up to 3dB.

Select a disc or CD with a well defined extended bass (Like Morphine). Listen carefully to the balance between bass and midrange. If you think the bass is too 'full-bodied' or over prominent, turn the right-hand knob on K-UBE (Contour) anti-clockwise. If the speakers sound 'thin', turn the knob clockwise. Experiment with different records, giving yourself time to get used to the way the Contour control operates.

If you have difficulty achieving a suitable balance try experimenting with the speakers' position, remembering that moving them closer to a wall or corner will produce more bass, away from walls will give less. It may take some time, and a number of records before the right setting is achieved. Once the correct speaker position and contour setting has been established you should be able to leave the contour setting where it is and ignore it.

USING THE CONTROLS: EXTENSION AND Q FACTOR
An ideal reproducing system must have a very extended low-frequency response if the true character of the lowest musical sounds and concert hall ambience, are to be accurately conveyed. Although such information is present on the finest modern recordings it is seldom heard correctly due mainly to deficiences in the low-frequency performance of most conventional loudspeaker systems. In Model 107 these deficiencies can be removed by means of K-UBE's Extension and Q-Factor controls.

The Extension control allows Model 107's lower cut-off frequency to be set to 50, 35, 25 or 18Hz. The cut-off frequency you choose will depend on the type of programme material and conditions of use.

For critical listening to music containing significant low-frequency information (e.g. pipe organ, synthesiser, piano or percussion) then a setting of 25Hz or 18Hz should be chosen. The higher settings of 35Hz and 50Hz should be used for less critical listening, when the source material does not require extension or is of inferior quality. These settings should also be used if Model 107 is to be used to provide continuous high-level background music at parties, thus avoiding the possibilities of amplifier overload (yeah, a 4ohm load will do that to ya).

The Q-Factor control allows you to vary low-frequency damping and will normally be set to a = 0.5, at which setting the system is critically damped. Higher or lower a values may be required if incorrect equalisation has been applied to the recording, or if the recording acoustic is too dry or too reverberant.

A higher Q-Factor will increase overhang or 'boom' and a lower factor will produce less overhang, sounding drier or tighter. Only your ears can guide you in the use of these two controls, so wide are the variations of
programme over which you now have control.

CAUTION: K-UBE applies PRECISELY the right amounts of equalisation to your system. The use of graphic equalisers, or your amplifier's Bass or Loudness controls is not only unnecessary, but may lead to the possibility of amplifier overload and consequent damage.
 
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REQUIRED! :yes:

The K-UBE (KEF Universal Bass Equalizer) is, as it is described, an equalizer for the lower Octaves. Some say that it doesn't matter if you have the K-UBE or not and some go so far as to say not to use it if you have it because it "clouds" the Mid-to-High Frequencies.

Well if you don't care to listen to the Bass below 50Hz and you don't care about how controlled that Bass is, knock yourself out! I've heard the difference and to those who suggest the above, I think you're on crack and not Morphine! :scratch2:

The K-UBE adds a whole other dimension to these speakers. When I first got these repaired, I hooked them up without the K-UBE and I was a little disappointed in what all the fuss was about. I mean they sounded fine, but not over the top great! Then I put the K-UBE inline and followed the directions. +1db on the Contour and of course +4 on the Extension for doing Morphine and WOW! We got some Bass....

I'll talk more about that in the next post, but the short answer is if you don't have or don't use the K-UBE, you are short changing this speaker in a BIG way!
My experience with the much smaller KEF Reference 102's is very similar with respect to the KUBE. The little R102's sound okay without the KUBE, but nothing special. Adding the KUBE fills out the mids, extends the bass response, and makes the speakers sound smoother and much better integrated. I've also found that running the KUBE in a tape or processor loop eliminates any noise or "distortion" issues.
 
My experience with the KUBE on my 107/2s has been that it really is very good at lowering the bottom "floor" of the speakers, but I think it does very slightly affect the upper mids/lower treble area. The affect is very slight, not wanting to sound too much like so many audio reviewers, but I'm tempted to say a little "veiled". I know, it's a cliche, but I don't know a better way to describe it. The improvement in low end response, and the slight, but useful "tone control" adjustment offered by using the KUBE out weigh that very slight issue however, so I have used the KUBE more than not over these last 20 odd years of 107 ownership. I suspect that if I had a smaller room, or much more damping like thick carpet, & plush furniture, I may not use the KUBE as much.

Interestingly enough, when I was auditioning the 107/2s, the dealer still had 107s, so I was able to compare them side by side. I considered the "original"107s quite strongly, in part because they were marked down, and would have been more than a grand less expensive, but after listening to both with & without their KUBEs, I thought they sounded much more similar without, than with. Without the KUBE, I only slightly preferred the /2s, and really only notices a slightly smoother (maybe more extended as well) tweeter, but with their KUBEs, I thought the /2 was noticeably "cleaner" sounding from the lower mids up. I even went so far as to ask if I could just "upgrade the KUBE on the older version, but the dealer said they wouldn't sell them that way. I desided the improvement was worth it, plus I was able to order the /2s in teak for the same price as the walnut - I love teak, think it's the sailor in me. I've never regretted my descision, but I'm sure if I had gome with the original version, I'd still have them today as well... they are both fantastic speakers!

FWIW, I listened to a dizzying array of speaker during that hunt... from B&W 800s,801s(too much bass & too little control),802s(my favorite B&Ws), to Mcintosh XRT16s & XRT22s (Probably gave the KEFs the most run for the money), Acoustat 22s & 33s (ended up buying Spectra 33s, but really never had enough room), plus a list of Snell, Theil, and Maggies too long to list. It was a fun hunt, but once I really listened to the 107s, it was "game over". I tend to sift through a lot of speakers, and only my Quads have been with me longer, my Quad dealer is always nudging me to move up to newer Quads (I have old ESL63s), but he knows better than to even suggest I sell the KEFs, I think that says a lot!
 
...but he knows better than to even suggest I sell the KEFs, I think that says a lot!

Sure does Frommer... I'm with ya... I don't think I'll need to be looking for Main or Center Speakers anytime soon!

I haven't heard the veiling of the Mid and Upper ranges that folks talk about. Maybe it's because I haven't listened that much to the KEF's without the K-UBE. Or maybe I've been too absorbed in listening to the Bass these things put out. :yes:

The K-UBE does impact the mid-range above 160Hz, but how much it does I don't know. Obviously there is some level of filtering going on to be able to adjust the lower mid-range to mesh a little better with the bass frequencies.

There could also be a psycho-acoustic thing going on as well. The 107's are just so much cleaner than the DCM TF700's that any minor impact from the K-UBE would go un-noticed by my untrained ear.

Like I said, I'm so enthralled with the Bass response form these things now that they are fixed, that any impact from the K-UBE is lost in the beauty of the sound.

I'll have to take some time to listen carefully to some reference passages with and without the K-UBE. It would be interesting.
 
I don't remember the exact configuration of the KUBE on yours, but mine has a "bypass" button. I'll occasionally bypass the cube, and listen for a while. I can tell the difference in the higher registers, but in general I think they are better balanced speakers with it working. I think there is a slightly bigger difference (though still minor) If I remove the KUBE all together... even in "bypass", the signal is still going through an active circut - if you unplug the KUBE, no signal will pass through it. The /2 KUBE has a second main output that I use for bi-amping, and the High & Low adjustments, though suble, can be handy. IIRC doesn't the older KUBE have some sort of cross-over, or "slope" control?
...fun stuff to play with any way, and the differences are subtle enough that nothing you do, with, or without a KUBE will detract from the greatness of the speakers!
 
IIRC doesn't the older KUBE have some sort of cross-over, or "slope" control?

...fun stuff to play with any way, and the differences are subtle enough that nothing you do, with, or without a KUBE will detract from the greatness of the speakers!

You can say that again! :thmbsp:

My K-UBE doesn't have a "Bypass Mode" unfortunately. You have to physically rewire to remove it. It does have the Q-Factor Control that I believe they took out of the older model.

The original K-UBE was a pretty complex little box and I think they found that most people didn't adjust the Q-Factor much so they simplified it.

This is their explanation of how the Q-Factor impacts the sound;

The Q-Factor control allows you to vary low-frequency damping and will normally be set to a = 0.5, at which setting the system is critically damped. Higher or lower Q values may be required if incorrect equalisation has been applied to the recording, or if the recording acoustic is too dry or too reverberant.

A higher Q-Factor will increase overhang or 'boom' and a lower factor will produce less overhang, sounding drier or tighter. Only your ears can guide you in the use of these two controls, so wide are the variations of programme over which you now have control.

The "Extension" control is on the Left in the image below. The "Q-Factor" is in the Center and the "Contour" on the Right. They are set below in the 12 O'clock Position for tuning. I ended up with +1db for the "Contour". For my room it just seemed to balance the Mids and the Lows for my ear. I then cranked the extension to Level 4 and left the Q-Factor at 0.5. I don't know why anyone would not maintain a Level 4 of Extension? OK, maybe for some real light acoustic stuff, but man, I want to hear (or should I say feel) 18Hz! ;)

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SimplySound knows what sounds accurate. I would also keep the Q factor set low.
I never heard the 107 but remember hearing the Kef 101 and 105 models when I got into this hobby. They were fairly new models then.
 
The Sound… that glorious sound!

Well, I have spent a couple weeks now listening to the KEF R107’s after they have been repaired. I have to say that it’s been very interesting trying to assess the “sound” these speakers generate. Maybe the best place to start is to try to describe the atypical “British Sound”.

My impression of this sound is that it tends to be less dynamic than say the “California Sound” epitomized by such brands as JBL and Infinity. The British Sound tends to be focused less on presenting the “attack” of dynamics and more on maintaining a very flat response throughout the frequency range. Because this response is very balanced, some interpret this as a more laid back, smoother sound. Many refer to this as the “Polite British Sound” and some prefer it, while others feel it lacks charisma and vibrancy.

There are a number of venerable British brands that have made generating this sound a part of their DNA. But there is one brand that stands a bit higher above these because of their history developing many of the iconic drivers that are the cornerstone of this sound. Kent Engineering and Foundry (KEF) is indeed the most illustrious of these many keepers of the British Sound.

The R107 was at one time the Flagship speaker of this iconic company, and it is no wonder it is held in such high regard. Since this speaker was introduced in 1986 it is considered by many to be at the apex of innovative development from KEF. It is described, rightfully so, as a “Reference Speaker", which means that the standards to which it reproduces music is of the utmost accuracy. Accuracy is not everyone’s cup of tea, but accuracy is what the R107 does best.

My reference is a pair of DCM Timeframe TF700’s that the R107’s replaced. And to be fair, the two speakers are most certainly in different leagues. The DCM TF700’s are from a company that prided itself on developing a budget minded speaker that could compete with the best the 80’s had to offer. It was a Mirror Imaged Transmission Line Design that definitely adapted the best technology that was available to offer an affordable alternative to much more expensive systems. Consequently, maybe it is only fitting to provide some comparisons.

My listening sessions consisted of many Rock, Jazz and Acoustic cuts to try to get an overall feel for the system. In particular, I wanted to find sophisticated Bass oriented music to get a full appreciation of what many consider to be the single most important innovation from KEF; the Coupled-Cavity Bass Cabinet. I listened to the speakers in three various modes; Stereo Mode, Stereo Mode with the KEF 103.2 center channel and in Full Multi-Channel Stereo Mode with a pair of ADS L730’s providing surround support.

First off let’s get into the Bass. This speaker does not do “Boom”. If you are thinking that a speaker like this rattles walls and windows, it ain’t happening. OK, I’m sure if you cranked the volume way up, you would most certainly be rattling some windows. But this speaker is again, all about accuracy.

This speaker presents the separation and imaging of instruments in the bass octaves like many speakers can only attempt to image the high frequencies. With this system you hear the pluck of the bass guitar strings as they are being struck completely separate and unique from the thump of the Bass Drum. And what I have been really getting into is how it does the sizzle and deep echo of the snare drum with incredible accuracy.

And “deep echo” is perhaps an appropriate term, because what really sets these speakers apart from other systems that pretend to do bass, is not just the separation and imaging of those instruments, but it is the decay that it presents. It is a drawn out vibration or echo that is so realistic of what a bass guitar or drum would present, it is beyond description.

I believe when John Atkinson was describing how these speakers touched the soul of the individual, he was alluding to how that bass wave just reverberates not only within your ears, but within your entire body. It is truly one of those things you need to experience to fully understand. Not that other speakers can’t do this, but it’s just that these KEF’s do it so well!

So as I described before, this is not just “Polite British Bass”; it is bass that is separated very well and presented in incredible detail and smoothness. It has a ring or echo decay that just makes it seem so real. It isn’t in your face or incredibly forward, it is more coherent with the other frequencies, but man you know it’s there. It’s like another dimension that keeps drawing you into it to hear what it has to say! It adds a whole other level of detail to any music you think you’ve heard before!

As for the middle and upper frequencies, I’ve commented elsewhere in this thread about how the “heads” of these speakers are like highly engineered and phase aligned LS3/5a’s. Perched on top of that beautifully crafted bass cabinet, these heads present the upper reaches of any music with incredible clarity and smoothness. Not much more to say, other than you won’t find too many speakers that can match this level of accuracy.

As for imaging, my room doesn’t really do the KEF’s justice. I have them about 6’ apart and they really require something more like 8’ in my opinion to get the stage to really open up. So in standalone stereo mode they sound a bit “constrained”. As my first comparison, I found the TF700’s actually presented a little wider soundstage in the same relative speaker position. But that is where all comparisons end.

The R107’s provide a much deeper 3D stage and have better separation of individual instruments. The TF700’s can’t compare when it comes to clarity from the bottom end on up. They sound masked compared to the openness and effortlessness of the R107’s. As for the bass response, the TF700’s do pretty well. They obviously won’t hit 20Hz with anything like the control the KEF’s have, but they actually sound pretty smooth down low, even if they don’t have the separation and clarity.

But as I said, it isn’t really fair to compare these two speakers. DCM did an awesome job of crafting a Transmission Line speaker in a Mirror Imaged Alignment to provide a cost effective floor stander that could present music in a realistic and smooth manner. But when it comes to a TOTL Flagship from a venerable company like KEF, well as someone said, they don’t call it a “reference speaker” for nothing!

Now a word about multi-channel modes; I found the R107 to be musical and entertaining in standalone stereo mode, but maybe not over the top great. I will say that I’m a bit jaded having listened to these for so long in multi-channel mode. I thought that adding the KEF 103.2 Center Channel really opened up the sound. It added a sense of height given how I have my centers mounted. It also really brought out the dynamics up high and just overall strengthened the mid-range, which is understandable.

The thing that really works with this setup is these two speaker pairs are like siblings or stable mates. They were built in the same time frame of KEF history and both use a version of the T33 tweeter, so suffice it to say that the voicing is almost identical. They just fit together so seamlessly, that it really does provide a nicely unified “Wall of KEF” up front.

As for working with the ADS L730’s in Multi-channel surround mode, I’m struggling with that. The ADS’s just seem out of place to a degree. They tend to be a bit dynamic to mesh with the R107’s and they bring some brightness to the edge of the soundstage and therefore draw attention to themselves, which is NOT what I am looking for out on the edge of the stage. But I have a solution to this….. stay tuned!
 
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Greetings! I just joined this forum after picking up a pair of KEF 107s in Phoenix from a friend who has been storing them for me after I purchased them on ebay early this year based on a photo.

The speakers appear to be in good shape and came with the KEF KUBE 107 (SP2105). I have not opened them up yet so hope the speakers really are ok.

The serial numbers all match (SP3059 bases L & R as well as the SP3069 Head assemblies L & R). However, the KUBE does not have the power supply and the original sticker with serial number is missing and replaced with a stick on label having 107 KUBE and SP2105 typed on it. SO I really don't know if it is the KUBE that was matched to this set or not. I have another KUBE I bought cheap a few years ago and it is S/N 002485. Unfortunately, I do not have a power supply for either KUBE.

I saw the link in this forum thread to a KUBE 200 schematic but am unsure if this is the same as the KEF KUBE 107 or not. Does anyone know for sure if that schematic is the same as for the KEF KUBE 107? Better yet, does anyone have a schematic for the 107 KUBE? Best would be a vendor source for the power supply?

I presently have a pair of Infinity RS-IIb speakers and was thinking of swapping these in or perhaps trying all 4 in a "surround" system. My main amp is a Parasound 1206 and I have two Parasound 1203 mono-amps for bi-amping the RS-IIb's. I use a Parasound 7100 pre-amp. (BTW: I also have a pair of Empire Grenadier end table speakers that are not connected but simply being used as, well, end tables).

Regards,

Craig
 
Hi Craig,

I have never seen a schematic for the KEF 107 KUBE (Orig or /2), if one ever surfaces, I know many folks would love to get their hands on it.

As for power supply, that is a tricky one too. My PS says 110V 5watts input, with an 18VAC output. It uses I believe a 5 pin AC Series XLR Connector similar to this...

Hope this helps!
 
Well Santa was "Berry, Berry Good to Me"! I've taken another step up in my system and the KEF's have never sung so well and so strong. I'll be posting a review of my thoughts on these two amps over in the Solid State forum!

Suffice it to say that I am indeed enjoying the Holidays!

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