The Quest for The KEF… Reference 107!

[Matt Helm]

Sorry to bring up an old post but I thought that you guys might be able to help. I picked up a pair of 107s a month ago in need of a refoam. Completed that with no issues and they seemed perfect, with no issues at all, but upon reassembly and through a dose of sheer stupidity, lack of sleep, and distraction, I damaged one of the drivers. The connecting rod between drivers was apparently a little too long upon reassembly and as I tightened down the frame in e cabinet on the upper driver I heard a pop (damn near brought a grown man to tears :tears: ). Upon closer inspection the glue holding the magnet had come loose and the pole shifted to one side locking the voice coil in place. I was able to carefully extract the magnet from the frame and the coil looks ok. I am about to take it to a local speaker repair place for realignment / re gluing instead of doing it myself. I've seen the DIY solutions using PVC frames and while tempted I don't want to risk any more damage than I've done.

On to my question, I still have one unit to reassemble and this one when it is repaired. My only guess is that the gasket material has compressed so much that the distance between the drivers did as well. My guess is that it is about a 1/4" off. I want to make sure that I assemble these as solidly as possible. Aside from replacing the gasket / weatherstripping material between the frame and the cabinet, are there any other things I should look at to correct this issue? Do I need to add new bushings to the screws that hold down the woofers? Is there an acceptable thickness for the gasket material?

Thanks all!

 

[canuckaudiog]

Interesting, I'm just in the process of refoaming the drivers on my 107s as well and have one totally reassembled. I had no such problems, but I'm guessing your environment is dryer than mine, since my foams had been totally perfect up until a week ago (that's a long time for foam, about 27 years). Thanks for the post - that's an interesting insight you bring up. It's too bad one of the drivers became wrecked in the process.

All I can offer you, which is unrelated to your problem, is that there are other points of restoration required to bring the 107 back to its factory performance. This includes reflowing the ferro fluid in the tweeters, recapping the 107 crossovers as well as the KUBE, and also you can improve the performance by swapping the op-amps out with better ones in the KUBE.

Feel free to PM me for any of the details.

 

[Cubical_Hell]

Guy on Reddit just got R107's for free!

 

[Matt Helm]

Thanks for the post - that's an interesting insight you bring up. It's too bad one of the drivers became wrecked in the process.

No one to blame but myself, but at least it seems repairable. Hopefully it will only be a delay of a few weeks and a hundred bucks or less worth of labor.

I picked up some weatherstripping to replace what is in there that is just slightly thicker than the original compressed gasket. I'll be taking some time on the other one to see what I can find out.. Anyone with insight would be appreciated.

The re-capping of the Kube and x-overs will be a project for another time once I get them running...

 

[Matt Helm]

as an FYI the other had the same issue. I believe the tolerances were just too close to account for the age induced compression of the gaskets. I added a washer above and below the frame on either side of the original grommet and added some thicker weatherstripping (3/8" x 3/4" wide) as a gasket and it fit fine. Lesson learned.

Sounds great for a mono rig :stupid:

 

[Matt Helm]

Fixed the shifted magnet myself, found out my KUBE had an issue.. Scored another one on ebay for $28+ shipping and got it today. Works great. Success - they sound GREAT! Glad I had this site / thread as a reference to help me along...

 

[Hawkeye83]

Thinking about buying a pair of 107's...

Hey all, after owning some 103.2's for 4-5 months now, I'm thinking about getting some 107's. Guy is asking $1595...I think that's a little high. I'm trying to talk him down to at least $1295, but he's not responding. I think I could "get his attention" if I paid his asking price of $1595, but is this foolish? I see these 107's come up online from time to time, but rarely within driving distance...usually they are in the Northeast (NY, Boston), Colorado, or California. Just trying to get some input whether shelling out $1595 would be worth it, or should I hold out and look for a cheaper pair? I've seen some sell for $750 on Audiogon, but they were (again) in California.

Right now, I'm running the 103.2's with an 8" subwoofer in my office. My main system has Emotiva amps and Magnepan 2.7QR's (with a 12" subwoofer on the way). I bought the Maggies without "permission" from my wife, and she says they're just too big...she wants them gone...she's even willing to let me spend the $1595 if I need to...anything to get rid of the Maggies!

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Obviously I want to hear the Kef's before I shell out the money...slightly worried about foam rot on the woofers. I don't think they have been refoamed, but he rates them a 9 cosmetically and a 10 sonically. He does have the Kube.
Thanks,
Dan

 

[mech986]

Dan, Welcome to AK. Where are you located so we have a sense of potential options including shipping?

 

[frommerstop]

Hello Dan, welcome to AK!

I agree that's a bit high compared to most I've seen, especially if it's a first series. I HAVE seen R107/2s (w/KUBE) bringing that much, but rarely, and with box, papers & in particularly fine condition. I think your offer was good enough to at least get a response, and I wouldn't sweat it if the seller isn't on the same page. If he doesn't get back to you, he's either diluted as to their market price, or he's just too flighty to deal with anyway.

IMO, you should keep an eye out for a /2. I compared them side by side back when I bought mine new, and felt the /2 was worth the extra grand or so, and a few weeks wait for a pair, over the older model they had in stock, on sale. My impression was the tweeter sounded a bit better on the /2. If you're not awair, the changes were from a cloth dome to an aluminum dome tweeter, addition of a second set of binding posts (for bi-amping/wiring), and a redesigned KUBE.

Since I've had my 107/2s for over 20yrs now, and the tweeters are still going strong, I suspect the aluminum dome may also help keep the ferofluid from drying. Although there are folks that have succeeded in replacing the fluid in the older model, the procedure looks a little random & clumsy to me. I still think an original R107 is a great speaker, but if you can find an R107/2 I think that's where your money's best spent.

...BTW, this discussion, about prices & market values, should be posted in the "Dollars & Sense" section. AK rules, and all, so don't be insulted if it gets deleted, or bumped there.

 

[Hawkeye83]

Thanks all!

Thanks for the replies. I have been a lurker here for awhile...a great resource.

Good advice, Frommer, and I'll keep that in mind!

Mech986 - I'm in Asheville, NC.

One other question...I already have that 12" subwoofer purchased, but I won't be getting it until March. It was hand-made, specifically for the Maggies...do you think I'll need or want a subwoofer with the 107's? Will it add anything or simply "muddy up" the beautiful bass I've been hearing about? I guess I'll try it, regardless...even if I don't get these Kef's, I'll keep an eye out...I'm happy with my Maggies for now, but my wife is not. I'm sure the sub will only add to the Maggie listening experience.

 

[canuckaudiog]

I'm not so sure I'd agree with waiting for a set of /2s. First off they are quite rare, more rare than the 107. I do agree about the other sentiments with regard to the differences between the 107 and 107/2, it's a better speaker, but a couple things you have to consider are, are you willing to wait for a set of 107/2s to show up for sale? And even if they do, are you willing to have them shipped? The chances of them showing up close enough to go pick them up are rather slim I imagine. Not to mention the sale price could be higher because of the fact it is the "version 2" and also because they are less common.

I agree about the comments on pricing.

As for a sub it's not absolutely necessary but would certainly help even out the bass in the room if set up properly. It's not about extending bass, it's about getting rid of peaky bass in a room.

 

[Hawkeye83]

Ls50?

Good point, Canuck.

Maybe another thing you can help me with...I was reading the LS3/5a vs. LS50 thread, and it reminded me...one of my buddies suggested that if I was going to spend $1500 on the 107's, why not get the LS50's? I told him I probably wasn't interested, because I already have some 103.2's (bookshelf), and that I'd like to keep one pair of bookshelf speakers and one pair of large speakers.

So, should I even consider the LS50's? I can't see how they would fill a room like the 107's. In the other thread it sounded like you may have heard the LS50's, and I KNOW you've got some 107's so let me know what you think there! Sorry if this is off-topic again. Hopefully soon I'll be writing here while listening to my 107's...but the guy is still not responding to me :thumbsdn:

 

[canuckaudiog]

Good point, Canuck.

Maybe another thing you can help me with...I was reading the LS3/5a vs. LS50 thread, and it reminded me...one of my buddies suggested that if I was going to spend $1500 on the 107's, why not get the LS50's? I told him I probably wasn't interested, because I already have some 103.2's (bookshelf), and that I'd like to keep one pair of bookshelf speakers and one pair of large speakers.

So, should I even consider the LS50's? I can't see how they would fill a room like the 107's. In the other thread it sounded like you may have heard the LS50's, and I KNOW you've got some 107's so let me know what you think there! Sorry if this is off-topic again. Hopefully soon I'll be writing here while listening to my 107's...but the guy is still not responding to me :thumbsdn:

The only reason I am considering selling my 107s and buying the LS50s is simply because of the room they are in, it's 9x12. In order to obtain proper imaging and integration with the 107s I have to place them very close to the side and rear walls, which is mucking up the sound. They do sound quite good, but not as good as they did when in my living room (a much larger area).

My suggestion to you is, if you have a room that will allow you to give the Kef 107s breathing room and enough distance between the speakers and your listening position, get the 107s. If you are planning to put them in to a room sized like mine (a small bedroom, basically) it may be smarter to go with the LS50.

Sound-wise they are different from each other in that I find the LS50 to be more forward sounding and more neutral in character. Also, better treble response and detail. But, the 107s midrange is incredible, and has a more laid back approach in comparison to the LS50, which you may prefer. YMMV. The bass response of course is far superior on the 107s and is something to experience, especially if you enjoy music that has bass below the 40Hz range (which plenty does).

Like I said, the only reason I am considering the LS50 is my room size. If I had a second listening environment that was large enough to fully accomodate their sonic prowess, the 107s wouldn't be going anywhere.

 

[Hawkeye83]

Incredible midrange and bass that is "something to experience"...you're talking me right into buying these 107's, even at $1595! :yes:

Right now, they would go into a large living room, taking the place of my Magnepans. They should work well in this room...I think it is like 20x14 but I would need to measure again to be sure.

We'll see if this guy ever responds...if not, I'll be listening to the Maggies and enjoying the music in the mean time

 

[canuckaudiog]

Incredible midrange and bass that is "something to experience"...you're talking me right into buying these 107's, even at $1595! :yes:

Right now, they would go into a large living room, taking the place of my Magnepans. They should work well in this room...I think it is like 20x14 but I would need to measure again to be sure.

We'll see if this guy ever responds...if not, I'll be listening to the Maggies and enjoying the music in the mean time

Well, I wouldn't pay that much personally because you will have to pour in another $250-$300 in restoration costs to get them singing factory, I think the seller would be smart to respond to you but give it some time, not everyone checks their e-mail religiously.

They are very good speakers though and worth a listen. Non-fatiguing, excellent imaging, very versatile in terms of room placement with the bass vent at the top, deep, genuine bass down to 20Hz, superb dynamics, the list goes on and on.. the only reason you won't like them is because of subjective reasons. Stereophile gave them a high rating when they reviewed it back in '87 (or '86 I can't recall exactly).

Keep us posted. :yes:

 

[Hawkeye83]

Thanks for providing a voice of reason, haha. I hear you on the "not checking emails religiously" thing, but i have been messaging him every few days for about two weeks now. He's changed the description of the ad twice in that time...gives me a bad feeling about the whole thing, but as long as the speakers check out okay, I could care less about the guy's character/attitude/people skills.

 

[canuckaudiog]

Thanks for providing a voice of reason, haha. I hear you on the "not checking emails religiously" thing, but i have been messaging him every few days for about two weeks now. He's changed the description of the ad twice in that time...gives me a bad feeling about the whole thing, but as long as the speakers check out okay, I could care less about the guy's character/attitude/people skills.

Oh I see.

You might just have to sit on it. I'd likely not send him any more e-mails for a while and let him respond to you. Perhaps he's ignoring your messages because he thinks $1600 is already a very good deal for it. Does the wording of the ad allude to that? Any ph # to contact?

Either way, let it sit. I do know how tough it is to do that. I can be pretty impatient myself, but it pays off. I remember contacting a guy about Polk Monitor 10a's and he was selling them for $180. He went down to $100 and I said if you can do it for $80, I will take them off your hands. He refused at first but a couple weeks later he e-mailed me saying he is willing to accept my offer.

Sometimes, it's better to have some money than none at all. Hopefully this guy will see it that way too.

 

[matteos]

Thanks for providing a voice of reason, haha. I hear you on the "not checking emails religiously" thing, but i have been messaging him every few days for about two weeks now. He's changed the description of the ad twice in that time...gives me a bad feeling about the whole thing, but as long as the speakers check out okay, I could care less about the guy's character/attitude/people skills.

Some sellers don't like lowballers. he may not respond to any emails that offer below the listed price.

 

[wsissons]

There are reasonable offers then there are offers that are insulting.......Depends on list price and product.....A lot of people list things a little high for room to move down.

 

[Hawkeye83]

Yeah, I wonder if he was insulted by my first offer. He had a starting price of $1295. Thinking I could negotiate, I started at $900. He didn't reply at all, instead raising his asking price to $1595.00. I haven't heard from him since.

He may have been insulted by $900, but like I said, I have seen some sell on Audiogon for $750, so I didn't think $900 was an INSULTING counter-offer...on the low end, yes, but insulting, I don't think so. I was hoping to negotiate around the $1100-1200 mark.

Still holding out hope to get these for a reasonable price. I'll keep everybody posted. For some reason, I am fascinated with this model. Maybe it's the unconventional looks (with the "heads" off) or the rave reviews, or the fact that I'm fairly impressed with the 103.2...