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The W45’s crossover upgrade begins

Discussion in 'British Audio' started by transmaster, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    The Mundorf’s are here.

    E7582282-3E79-45D8-8446-E6C3634D4DC2.jpeg
     
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  2. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Har-de-har-har the jokes in me, there are 3 NPE’s just like the W35. There are two, 4μF Minervas. Need to order more parts. Fortunately I have enough to do one crossover. It is interesting to note that on this set of the speaker all of the speaker connections are soldered.

    With the Hong Kong Minerva's
    0B429AD5-7619-4361-BB69-4986A8E9F015.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  3. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
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    One down waiting for the parts on the other. Because it was a bit loose I tacked the 8 μF capacitor down with hot glue. That is the cap in the lower left-hand side of the board. Wrapped some electrical tape around the inductor on the left side its wrapping was coming loose. I also retouched all of the solder connections. Interesting little tid-bit I used Cardas solder (not the lead free) for the first time on this job. It didn't seem to be happy to rub shoulders with the solder that was used by Wharfedale 48 years ago even with Cardas paste flux, it worked OK but it did not flow quite like the Kester 44 eutectic.

    With the Mundorf E-Cap Plains.
    BC67326E-D604-4166-B45D-B3A8B94220A2.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  4. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    The Minerva’s in this crossover were all bad excessive ESR.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  5. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
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    Holy Cow what a difference. The recapped Right-hand speaker is crystal clear very smooth wonderful articulation. The left-hand speaker still with the original Minerva’s is somewhat harsh, not as clear with strident overtones. There is some controversy about the break-in period on film crossover capacitors. An NPE does not have one. Listening to Days of Future Past by The Moody Blues. It is like I have 2 entirely different speakers playing.

    I am becoming a huge fan of the Mundorf E-Cap, not the least of which they are a fantastic bang for the buck.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  6. dzkfraser

    dzkfraser Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    821
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Still waiting on mine, weird how yours has 3 caps of different values than mine with 2 caps - The price for the Mundorfs is good but the shipping charges are awful
     

     

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  7. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
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    Not many places sell the Mundorf E-Cap. The other places E-Bay, and Madisound charge more for the cap’s and about the same shipping. It was really exasperating when I discovered my crossovers had 3 NPE’s. I had to order 2 more 4μF cap’s.

    There is not much information on the Anchromatic Wharfedale’s. I think they were assembled in the United States with imported Parts from the UK installed in American made cases. There is no mention of these models in the “A Pair of Wharfedale’s” book. Circa 1970 Warfedale was not really a US national brand. They were marketed on the East Coast. New York City seems to be the nexus of sales at the time. I purchased the W25, and W35 at a stereo shop in Key West Florida in 1972.
     
  8. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
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    The 48-year-old Minerva Caps had ESR’s between 1.35 and 1.85. Each had a Vloss of over 1%. The replacement Mundorf E-Cap’s consistently tested with ESR of .31.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  9. dzkfraser

    dzkfraser Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    821
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    I got the Mundorfs and installed them, look to be really high quality. now to put everything back together, the old caps were way out of spec - the 4s measured around 6uf and the 6s measured around 8uf
     
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  10. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
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    The Mundorf cap’s are the highest quality electroytics I have ever seen it is to bad they don’t make a regular EL’s I would use them in my vintage AA5 portables.
     
  11. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Location:
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    According to the folks over at The Classic Speaker Forum the Minervas were bad when installed. :D
     

     

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  12. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Finished, the second crossover is done. I cannot believe these are 48 year old Speakers.

    What is kind of interesting is the reviews for the current Wharfedale Diamond 225 Speaker read exactly what I am hearing from these W45’s.

    I always find it interesting to take a look at hand wired electronics, call it electronic archeology. I found the soldering on the first crossover just a bit crude, on the second crossover the 8μF, and one of the 4μF capacitors the one for the tweeter circuit we’re they join at the positive speaker connection were not just a cold solder joint but it does not look like the flux was applied the tab had solder on it but these capacitors were not soldered and were just loose in the solder tab. Tested the capacitors and all were bad the 8μF had almost a 4% voltage loss. It goes without saying that I re-solder everything with the Cardas solder.
     
  13. dzkfraser

    dzkfraser Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    821
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    I got the 45s hooked up and played for a few hours,
    the new caps definitely opened up the mids and highs,
    very detailed. The bass is very subdued, no punch at all,
    definitely aren't suited for rock or anything bass heavy.
    Also noted they don't seem to be particularly efficient,
    I have to turn up to about half volume on my 40 watt
    Optonica before the come alive. I'll play for a while longer,
    maybe the woofers just need to loosen up a bit
     
  14. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    The bass isn't really subdued what you are hearing is the classic acoustic suspended speaker sound, as voiced by the British, aka "The British Sound", These speakers are not really suited to rock music, heavy metal, etc. Instead try lounge music, classical, Baroque, Rococo, small club Jazz, chamber orchestra, string quartets, etc. Can you stream into them if so play WQXR you will hear what the W45 is designed for. Be careful of the power input the W45 max's out at 45 watts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  15. dzkfraser

    dzkfraser Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    821
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Ahh, the "British Sound" always wondered what that was about, I'll try a bunch of different genres to see what sounds best with them.
     
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  16. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
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    Thinking of music to demonstrate what these W45's can do. One that comes to mind is Ambient Cafe. by Briza (David Arkenstone), "Boarding Pass" is the official boarding music for Cathay Pacific Airlines.

     

     

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  17. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Oh My God!!!!! listening to; Jackie Gleason Presents Music, Martinis, and Memories The W45's are voluptuous.

    Pulled up the Polk Monitor 10B's on the Yamaha playing the same album from the PC and it does not sound nearly as good. The 10B's have never had the middle transparency the Wharfedales have. To be sure the 10B's will shake the house with Church Organ music, or Orchestral Metal but for light sparkly lounge music they just don't have it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  18. dzkfraser

    dzkfraser Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    821
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    I don't really have much like that in my collection - I'll throw on
    Stevie Ray Vaughn - Riviera Paradise, see how that sounds
     
  19. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
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    Blue Grass is very good. Easy listening,
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  20. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,309
    Location:
    Cheyenne, Wyoming
    Here is the setup I have for the W35’s, I temporarily have the W45’s on it.

    7CC312B4-F65B-44F4-AEF0-2CCA2ADCCC38.jpeg
     

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