They say a picture paints a thousand words.

Not sure how I missed this thread but I really dig the circular layout for a better distribution of weight. It makes sense. Have you considered doing the same with the rollers? For example place a circular array of rollers atop the perspex layer that rests on the magix and then a layer of perspex on the rollers and then the GT on top of that layer with maybe a layer of dampening material sandwiched between.
One of the myriad of complications which come with the territory of cups and ball isolation atop a compliant base(ie springs, Magix, elastomer, airbladder) is that the base shifts slightly when moving the turntable .

 
This is the configuration I'm using at the moment. Rollers on top, springs on the bottom. The the top two tier are glass because I had them laying around but will eventually use perspex, baltic birch or bamboo. I placed the additional record weights on the front of the glass because it kills the inherent resonance of the glass and also helps to balance the weight from back to front. On the springs the GT tends to be heavier toward the back. Listening to my half-speed master of Crime of the Century sounds dynamic and gorgeous.

0516181730.jpg
 
The benefits of even my simplistic upgrades are tangible. I'm listening to the GnR Lies EP and it's like hearing it again for the first time. I've heard this many times in multiple formats. The ability of the isolation to allow the GT to freely transmit vocals with texture and space is simply stunning. At low volume it sounds rough but when you turn the dial and open it up Axl is right there. I can only imagine how good Theo's configuration must sound! My ultimate step will be the Minus K.
 
The benefits of even my simplistic upgrades are tangible. I'm listening to the GnR Lies EP and it's like hearing it again for the first time. I've heard this many times in multiple formats. The ability of the isolation to allow the GT to freely transmit vocals with texture and space is simply stunning. At low volume it sounds rough but when you turn the dial and open it up Axl is right there. I can only imagine how good Theo's configuration must sound! My ultimate step will be the Minus K.
So you have dived in and are swimming. Experiment. Read what I've said. Consider. Consider some more. Attempt something if you get the urge to. Follow your hunches. Read some more.

Trust your ears and your gut. If the sound appeals but in the long term your gut says "It's not right" trust your gut. Three things I have noticed which are always improved if your move is in the right direction.

Dynamics. Not just the contrast between the merest whisper and atomic destruction but super definition in the subtle stuff. Also notice how individual sonic elements have distinct individual dynamic patterns.

Tone: The movement is from sounding 'recorded' the sound becomes much more natural and unprocessed sounding. The unique sound of instruments becomes much more authentic and evocative. Voices similarly benefit. Vocal groupings tend to sound more like distinctly different individuals, with the individuality, inflections, emotional delivery and lyrics being pure sounding and compelling. I'll even say that the sound of the venue in minimal miked recordings ties in here.

Bass. The big thing to look for here is definition accompanied by dynamics. If you get one without the other you're not quite there. You want clearer definition, less bloat, clearer idea of bass texture, clearer deliniation of multiple simultaneous bass instruments. You want all of that accompanied by explosive bass dynamics.

This last bit is important - Dynamics, Tone and Bass must improve simultaneously for isolation to be truly making a change for the better. Improvements are across the board in those criteria or it is a fail and not quite there yet.
 
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I actually find it difficult to credit how good this turntable sounds. I've owned it for almost 9 years and I've never even heard it close to where got things tonight. I feel that this ridiculously fussy ride to optimise this support is finally bearing fruit. I literally felt that if I died tonight it was worth it to hear the system sound this good.
 
This is the configuration I'm using at the moment. Rollers on top, springs on the bottom. The the top two tier are glass because I had them laying around but will eventually use perspex, baltic birch or bamboo. I placed the additional record weights on the front of the glass because it kills the inherent resonance of the glass and also helps to balance the weight from back to front. On the springs the GT tends to be heavier toward the back. Listening to my half-speed master of Crime of the Century sounds dynamic and gorgeous.

View attachment 1189132

Hi 808 State, can I ask you where you got the springs, cups and balls from. I would like to experiment with this a little myself. Thanks.
 
Hi 808 State, can I ask you where you got the springs, cups and balls from. I would like to experiment with this a little myself. Thanks.

No problem, here you go:

Spring feet:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B074BQJ88C

Roller block (buy two packs):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000YB9RV8

1" bearings:
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007B2AA0K

It sounds silly but coating the ends of the springs with silicone grease eliminates the noise they make when they bounce under load. For such a cheap solution I'm pretty happy with the results. At some point I want to get larger round boards and try a circular or triangular array.
 
No problem, here you go:

Spring feet:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B074BQJ88C

Roller block (buy two packs):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000YB9RV8

1" bearings:
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007B2AA0K

It sounds silly but coating the ends of the springs with silicone grease eliminates the noise they make when they bounce under load. For such a cheap solution I'm pretty happy with the results. At some point I want to get larger round boards and try a circular or triangular array.

Great. Thanks very much.
 
So you have dived in and are swimming. Experiment. Read what I've said. Consider. Consider some more. Attempt something if you get the urge to. Follow your hunches. Read some more.

Trust your ears and your gut. If the sound appeals but in the long term your gut says "It's not right" trust your gut. Three things I have noticed which are always improved if your move is in the right direction.

Dynamics. Not just the contrast between the merest whisper and atomic destruction but super definition in the subtle stuff. Also notice how individual sonic elements have distinct individual dynamic patterns.

Tone: The movement is from sounding 'recorded' the sound becomes much more natural and unprocessed sounding. The unique sound of instruments becomes much more authentic and evocative. Voices similarly benefit. Vocal groupings tend to sound more like distinctly different individuals, with the individuality, inflections, emotional delivery and lyrics being pure sounding and compelling. I'll even say that the sound of the venue in minimal miked recordings ties in here.

Bass. The big thing to look for here is definition accompanied by dynamics. If you get one without the other you're not quite there. You want clearer definition, less bloat, clearer idea of bass texture, clearer deliniation of multiple simultaneous bass instruments. You want all of that accompanied by explosive bass dynamics.

This last bit is important - Dynamics, Tone and Bass must improve simultaneously for isolation to be truly making a change for the better. Improvements are across the board in those criteria or it is a fail and not quite there yet.

Going to a heavier and better damped rack was an immediate and giant leap in bass impact, definition and overall dynamics. Adding the springs and rollers improved the tone and high frequency reproduction. I picked up a very playable Monarch Zeppelin II RL cut and found that because everything is now so well defined that the RL is sort of lacking in natural mid-range coloration. I was so excited to hear it but in the end thought I'm not convinced it's deserving of the hype that surrounds it. The bass is well defined and the highs are crisp but it's not as satisfying as other versions. In contrast nearly every other record I've played is simply thrilling. Supertramp, Violent Femmes, GnR, Elton John...now I just can't decide if I like the Half Speed Crime of the Century or the Speaker's Corner better. I feel as though the GT is so good that rather than embellishing it simply elevates where elevation is due. I tend to wonder if the reason some people prefer the 2014 remaster of Zepp II to the RL is the mid-range.
 
A great turntable removes an overlay of distortion that other turntables are incapable of removing. In other words, it is more what the turntable doesn't do that is more important than what it does. Everything a turntable is meant to do is all important but the best turntables impose less of themselves upon the signal. We hear more from a great turntable because it does less.
 
Recent adjustment or things just settling in?
The support remains a work in progress. My 'method' is to try something and see if it 'works'. How can I ever know that I've arrived(when I don't really know the extent of what I'm aiming for)? I might be 99.9% of the way to knowing all of what the GT 2000 can achieve or I might be 10% there.

So, I try things. The result is either better, another shade of little progress, or detrimental to a greater or lesser degree. If it is detrimental, I backtrack and try again in a different direction. If it is different but not really progress I can backtrack or I can nudge a bit further in the direction and backtrack if things get worse. If it is better, the change gets incorporated.

My evaluation criteria are listed back in post #65 a few posts back in this thread. The results have to be across the board in those criteria. They all improve along the sonic lines I described simultaneously. When I hear that occur, I know that things are moving in the right direction.
 
I would only use three of the round legs on the first level. Three points defines a plane and less is more when dealing with isolation.
 
Speaking of less is more, didn't Theo recently pledge to not discuss the GT2000s any further?

However, as an addictive person, I can appreciate how difficult that might be!
 
Speaking of less is more, didn't Theo recently pledge to not discuss the GT2000s any further?

However, as an addictive person, I can appreciate how difficult that might be!

He's already been dipped and pan fried so we'll give him a pass.
 
Ingress Engineering are the fabricators of the cups i use:

http://www.ingress-engineering.ca/products-and-services.php

IMG_0379.JPG
 
OK so I am finally ready to dip my toe in the isolation waters.

I have purchased all the equipment that is linked in 808_State’s earlier post and will put together two separate bases comprised of 1/8” thick neoprene rubber sandwiched between 3/4” MDF. I plan on setting up the rollers and springs as shown in the diagram below.

All in all it’s a low cost entry to the world of isolation ($150) but based on a lot of info on the web it should definitely yield some improvements.


BFAF4AD2-040E-4119-8271-DE7C44C7D664.jpeg
 
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