Thinking about replacing Forte II's with Altec Valencia's

[rshep]

I’m considering purchasing a pair of Altec Valencia 846u speakers to use in my “listening room” which is a 11x14 bedroom. I currently have a pair of Klipsch Forte II’s (stock except for Crites tweeter diaphragms) in the room. I like the Forte’s but feel they could get better with new crossovers and perhaps midrange diaphragms.

So instead of refining the Forte’s I am thinking of moving to some Altec’s. I’ve heard 19’s and 14’s and like the Altec sound. There seems to be lots of good info regarding upgrading Altecs, including the Z19 crossover design that Zilch had made.

I listen to prog rock and jazz mostly. My hearing stops at 10k. I’m looking for imaging and 3d instrument placement. I like to hear space around the instruments and hear them placed out of the 2d plane so they come from in front and behind the speakers. I sometimes listen with 90-95 peaks but don’t go that loud for long periods of time. I also value smoothness, I don’t like harsh notes that don’t sound comfortable.

My questions are, will the Valencia’s be okay in a 11x14 room? What would be the differences in the basic sound from the Forte’s? I’m fine spending time and some money on either speaker to further optimize them. In the end would the Valencia's end up being a better speaker for my application over the Forte's?

 

[bowtie427ss]

Tough call. The Valencia's strongest suit will be smoothness thru the middle. But, they probably won't do as well at either extreme as tweaked Forte's.

If you can audition them, that would be a big plus.

While you're probably missing what the Altecs do best now, you might miss what the Fortes do best, more.

 

[BillWojo]

I've never had Forte's but I moved from recapped Hersesy's to HeathKit AS101's, basically Valencia's in a nice cabinet, all Altec goodness inside. Like you my hearing drops out at 10K, I look at the bright side, I'll never spend big bucks for some tweeters I'll never hear.
I really enjoyed the Heresy's but the Altec's sound a lot fuller, absolutely love the mid range and they can be tweaked as desired. Still not a bass monster, if you need that, grab a sub.
The Altec components are of much higher quality, a good investment for sure.

BillWojo

 

[Tom Brennan]

IMO the Forte is far superior to the Heresy, having much better tone, far more robust and smooth, and it's capable of the big soundstage trick too. I think the Forte to be one of the best speakers the company made. As much as I like Altecs I'd be hard pressed to pick between the Val and the Forte. My thoughts on this mirror Tom's.

 

[rshep]

While you're probably missing what the Altecs do best now, you might miss what the Fortes do best, more.

Excellent point, that really nails my thoughts too. I did end up buying the Valencia's yesterday. They are projects, needing cabinet veneer repair and one of the compression drivers is open circuit. I couldn't resist buying them, they were 90 minutes away and affordable. I'd like to get the driver replacement and clean them up enough to given them a whirl and compare in the same room with the Fortes. I'll have to take some before pictures and document the restoration process. Of course, once I get them working I'll post my listening comments. Even in their rough condition, I think they're awesome, well-built and very American.

 

[BillWojo]

Take lots of pictures and document it here. There are a few of us Altec fans that can give you advise.

BillWojo

 

[rshep]

The Altec components are of much higher quality, a good investment for sure.

This is why I decided to pick the Valencia's up. The seller said he could have parted them out for more than what he sold them to me for but wanted to keep them together if possible. Coincidentally, I have a newfound interest in woodworking so I'll be able to combine my hobbies in this project. I don't think I'll be out any money if I decide not to keep them, and it will be a blast fixing them up and seeing how good they are. I have a feeling that I'm really going to like them.

 

[BillWojo]

One of the Altec guys made mention of Alec and Mac gear and brought up an interesting thought that I agree with. When purchasing either it's a nice way to "park" your money, you get to enjoy them and if you want to move them on down the road it's like you had the cash stashed in a drawer all along.
I think you will enjoy your Valencias. I have heard the Fortes at another members house and they sounded good but never had the pleasure of owning them and hearing the two back to back. I'm looking forward to your opinion.

BillWojo

 

[marantzfan]

We're these the ones in Tucson on CL?

 

[rshep]

We're these the ones in Tucson on CL?

Yes sir![/QUOTE]

 

[marantzfan]

I'm glad you got them and they didn't end up in pieces on a boat across the ocean.

As a previous owner of both Forte's and Model 19's; I think you'll really like these.

 

[macyjrm]

You are going to like them. They are fantastic sound reproducers. I do believe they would be happier in a room larger than 11x14. I used mine in a room approximately 16x24 which they filled with good sound effortlessly. Sold them to a fellow AKer to make room for some JBL loaded Barzilays.

 

[sheltie dave]

The 19s will struggle a little in a bedroom, and with that size as well. I think you will like them more in a larger space where they integrate more. The fortes are slightly taller, so the kids and highs with throw into the room better.

Looking forward to your experience.

 

[twiiii]

811 horns with a 802 are not my favorites. I know I owned Carmels. And I much preferred them over Valencies with a single 416 woofer. The sound of the of a Valencia would be much improved if it had a model 19's crossover tweak or if the valencia had the N1201 network, using 902 with the latest diaphragm. But then you can do all these mods yourself. Early Valencias had so much harmonic distortion in the bass that really turned me off. I suppose you could recone the woofers to help with that issue. As you can't hear above 10 Khz. I would look for some low boy or upright Bozak B4000/4005 Symphonies. If you want horn type definition with out the honking you want the 4000 with the line array of tweeters. If you want a more dispersed sound the 4005 with the spherical tweeter array. The Symphonys are 3 db less efficient and love good solid state amps with a higher damping factor. But the bass is so much more superior than the Altec, and the human voice so much more natural.

Have you heard the new Forte III with the 15 " PR?

 

[elitopus]

Early Valencias had so much harmonic distortion in the bass that really turned me off.

Did you notice this same distortion in other Altec speakers that used the 416A/Z driver, or just the Valencias?

 

[BillWojo]

I guess my ears are shot to because I never noticed all of that harmonic distortion in my AS101's from the woofers.

BillWojo

 

[Tom Brennan]

One of the top systems I heard was a fella's in Chicago who used Vals with stock drivers and crossovers but with the 811 horns heroically damped and very thick baffles; 2" or so. And Conrad Johnson tube electronics. Oh yeah.

I used Model 19s in a bedroom that I used as music and movie room, they sounded incredible. Maybe they would've sounded better in a bigger room but in the large front room I had my Heath AS-21s---Altec 9844 monitors in dress clothes.

 

[rshep]

I replaced the one bad diaphragm with an OEM from Simply Speakers and have been listening to them for 3 days now. I'm very pleased with the sound. Last night I dragged my Forte 2's downstairs and did some quick A/Bing. I was actually surprised how much better the Valencia's sound. I've got to run to work so I'll have to wait until I have the time to post more details. Here's a photo of them in the family room.