Thorens owners group

[sgmlaw]

I like this TD126-III.
I remember those RDC acrylic Thorens platters. I first saw it in photos of the Thorens Ambiance, then I noticed it was being sold seperately through Clearlight Audio in Germany. I think I had an opportunity to buy one of the last ones for a mere $300 (or thereabouts). Now I wish I had.

As I gather motivation to begin my restoration project on a TD126-III I have, this one gives further inspiration. I agree that the bottom plastic cover needs to be replaced. That piece of plastic seems to be the cheapest part of it. When I had mine up and playing I simply removed the bottom cover entirely and attached rubber feet directly to the heavy wood cross beams of that plinth structure, which is quite solid in its design.

-Steve

That was a common tweak with the 125/126s. A number of enthusiasts would simply remove the bottom cover, as they believed it created a somewhat ‘boomy’ resonance with some of the confined standing wave paths in that enclosed plinth box.

We decided to take it further, however, and really dampen down the resonance pathways on this one.

The platter is indeed a German-made part. I picked up ours at the Thorens service depot in NYC many years ago. It was one of the very last they had, and the one service tech there was raving about how much nicer they were compared to the “bells” (his words). I forget what we paid, but it was not inexpensive.

It’s not a pure composite design, but incorporates some mass-loading and has a dissimilar resonance aborber in it.

As I mentioned above, it’s not the best. But it does a nice job and is marked genuine Thorens for the brand snobs. If you can find one, I would say grab it if the price is not too high.

 

[sgmlaw]

Mass distribution and porosity reduction. It takes bubbles out of the process allowing the molten alloy to flow freely and get evenly distributed inside the mold to avoid unwanted lumps of mass and it reduces the degree of porosity for durability and longevity of the casting.

Interesting. I always thought that oxide formation in entrained air bubbles actually reduced porosity size, at least in steel, cast iron and some aluminum casting pours. I understood OFHC to be smelted, drawn and processed far differently than ferrous metal castings to maintain crystal purity.

I'll have to look into this more closely. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[tnsilver]

I can say the stock 'platter' on these later heavy Thorens decks was nothing to write home about. The stock two-piece arrangement had a definite resonance to it. The acrylic platter is not the best, but it is one piece, and a lot quieter than the stocker, which is really not a platter at all, but a hollow machined ring sitting (floating) on an inner drive spindle assembly. A hard rubber mat does not control that situation.

I beg to differ, the stock platter is no more two pieces than the acrylic platter you've demonstrated which is clearly sitting on the same die-cast sub-platter. Try as I might, I am unable to get the stock Thorens platter to ring while positioned on the sub-platter and covered by the stock mat. Hung to a string in mid air it does rings like a bell, like the clearest of church bells too. On that note, I can also make the double reed on/off switch sing like a kazoo if I really have to.

 

[sgmlaw]

I beg to differ, the stock platter is no more two pieces than the acrylic platter you've demonstrated which is clearly sitting on the same die-cast sub-platter. Try as I might, I am unable to get the stock Thorens platter to ring while positioned on the sub-platter and covered by the stock mat. Hung to a string in mid air it does rings like a bell, like the clearest of church bells too. On that note, I can also make the double reed on/off switch sing like a kazoo if I really have to.

Beg away. It rings.

We will agree to differ.

 

[user510]

Excellent parallel. It is easy to confuse a quiet deck with 'analytical' ... or one with the wrong arm match as 'lifeless'.

It is all in the various pairings and marriages that it all comes together. Or if you would rather pay 3x for the same sounding gear at a salon, I'll use their word: synergy.

That is where the Series III arm balances the act here with necessary vibrancy and verve in this instance. Paired to the wrong deck, the III can come across as too busy, even confused with imaging at times. And I run ours undamped, which magnifies any irregularities. But here, sitting on a very quiet board, it is just right.

For a time I tried mine (TD126-III) with different arms and cartridges. Among those I tried with it I thought that the Zeta arm - while fitted with DL-103R (Uwe bodied and with an SS line contact stylus) sounded very lively, full bodied and atmospheric. Of course this was with the standard platter system while using a couple of different platter mats that for a time included the standard rubber mat.

This was after re-gluing the strobe mirror back into place and giving the platter bearing and motor some fresh lube. Bottom cover removed as seen in the photo.

Seen in the second photo are some oversized rubber feet attached to the underneath framework of the TD126-III plinth. Much can be done to improve on this less than optimal TT siting. For instance that glass platform is the first item to be replaced, but with a 3-spring sub-chassis player there is much isolation going on between the stylus/groove and the supporting surfaces. So I feel I was getting a useful impression of the potential for this player. And the rubber feet helped.

Next step will be for me to replace electrolytics on the PCB's within it and then do a general sorting and clean to make certain the mechanical bits are performing as per design. I have one light bulb in the 33 rpm speed button that needs replacement. Stuff like that. The black plinth, (least costly option, I believe) can be refinished or perhaps it can receive some interesting veneer.

Above is how I received it. It came in its original ship carton. Unfortunately the TP63 arm wand was missing. Well I wasn't planning on using the TP16-III tonearm anyway but.... I feel this is an excellent prospect when I get around to it -- and I'm thinking about starting this pretty soon.
http://www.theanalogdept.com/user510td126iiiproject.htm
above link to my project page for this player
-Steve

 

[sgmlaw]

For a time I tried mine (TD126-III) with different arms and cartridges. Among those I tried with it I thought that the Zeta arm - while fitted with DL-103R (Uwe bodied and with an SS line contact stylus) sounded very lively, full bodied and atmospheric. Of course this was with the standard platter system while using a couple of different platter mats that for a time included the standard rubber mat.

This was after re-gluing the strobe mirror back into place and giving the platter bearing and motor some fresh lube. Bottom cover removed as seen in the photo.

Seen in the second photo are some oversized rubber feet attached to the underneath framework of the TD126-III plinth. Much can be done to improve on this less than optimal TT siting. For instance that glass platform is the first item to be replaced, but with a 3-spring sub-chassis player there is much isolation going on between the stylus/groove and the supporting surfaces. So I feel I was getting a useful impression of the potential for this player. And the rubber feet helped.

Next step will be for me to replace electrolytics on the PCB's within it and then do a general sorting and clean to make certain the mechanical bits are performing as per design. I have one light bulb in the 33 rpm speed button that needs replacement. Stuff like that. The black plinth, (least costly option, I believe) can be refinished or perhaps it can receive some interesting veneer.

Above is how I received it. It came in its original ship carton. Unfortunately the TP63 arm wand was missing. Well I wasn't planning on using the TP16-III tonearm anyway but.... I feel this is an excellent prospect when I get around to it -- and I'm thinking about starting this pretty soon.
http://www.theanalogdept.com/user510td126iiiproject.htm
above link to my project page for this player
-Steve

Very nice! I always prefer a medium mass spindle weight on both vinyl and CD decks. But I was resistant to fit a spindle weight on ours, as much for the added bearing load as because it could weigh the chassis springs past their optimal loading zones. But yours seems to be singing along quite nicely with one, so I may revisit that element at a later point.

 

[user510]

Very nice! I always prefer a medium mass spindle weight on both vinyl and CD decks. But I was resistant to fit a spindle weight on ours, as much for the added bearing load as because it could weigh the chassis springs past their optimal loading zones. But yours seems to be singing along quite nicely with one, so I may revisit that element at a later point.

re: record weights.
subchassis loading. In those photos we see the Zeta tonearm mounted. For that arm I made a new armboard. So the motor that operates the auto lift function of the standard tonearm is not attached to the underside of that armboard as it is on the oem board. This reduces the overall weight of the floating subchassis. Which is why I experienced no spring load issues in that setup. If anything, the loading was a bit lighter than normal. So the added load of that aluminum record weight (which weighs slightly less than one pound!) was handled well enough and I saw what passed for normal action from that suspended assembly.

Bearing wear: In some circumstances I have heard a positive difference using a record weight. That said, there is always a concern that the added load over the bearing thrust will accelerate wear at the tip of the thrust. On a Td124 I am less concerned because the thrust pads are easily accessible and replaceable. On the belt drive models that feature bearing housings that are not built to be disassembled, that is a different concern. So...the record weight in those photos was used once in a while. Probably over the long term I will use lighter record weights and not always, depending on whether a particular weight makes a positive audible difference.

Actually, for the TD126-III what I really want to experiment with is the Thorens Disc-Contact vacuum platter mat that was available for a brief period of time in the early 1980's.
-Steve

 

[lightcapture]

My Thorens story:
My very first turntable in 1970 was a Thorens TD150 mkII. I jumped head long into audiophile and a few years later I upgraded to a Thorens TD125 MkII w/ Shure SME3009 improved arm...it was spectacular at the time.
Then from 1976-99 I was w/o a stereo as an inner city missionary. I then returned to audio w/ CD only playback. Later trying vinyl with various vintage tables off and on for the last 6 years but could never connect to any of them, not that they weren't any good.
About 1 month ago I returned to Thorens w/ a new TD203 w/ Ortofon 2m Blue and !'m very happy with the performance. I'm glad to be back w/ Thorens, even if it's entry level.
Mike

 

[user510]

My Thorens story:
My very first turntable in 1970 was a Thorens TD150 mkII. I jumped head long into audiophile and a few years later I upgraded to a Thorens TD125 MkII w/ Shure SME3009 improved arm...it was spectacular at the time.
Then from 1976-99 I was w/o a stereo as an inner city missionary. I then returned to audio w/ CD only playback. Later trying vinyl with various vintage tables off and on for the last 6 years but could never connect to any of them, not that they weren't any good.
About 1 month ago I returned to Thorens w/ a new TD203 w/ Ortofon 2m Blue and !'m very happy with the performance. I'm glad to be back w/ Thorens, even if it's entry level.
Mike

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/10/thorens-td-203-turntable-new.html
Many of us are interested in Thorens for their vintage turntables and have little knowledge of the current product range. Although I must admit there have been some of the new models reviewed by the audio press that do interest me. Of interest on the TD203 is the unipivot tonearm. This must be a first for Thorens.
I also thought that the TD 309 looked interesting to me with its unique suspension design. At the other end of the scale the TD 550 looks very interesting, if only it were more affordable.

-Steve

 

[jojo0416]

Finally I got back my TD 147, I purchased Canare cable replacements and the hum is gone!!! Pre-cut damping was already installed by the previous owner so I just replaced the 3 suspensions.
I have my AT 440mlb installed but it is slightly bested by my other cart a Denon 103r in my other table. Any consensus on the best value cart for these models with the original tonearm TP16?
Micro Accoutic MA - 630 or Ortofon MC 20 Super?

 

[tnsilver]

Looking good!!!

I love the TP-16 Mk-II with the TP-63 wand, but it's not, in no way, suitable for a Denon DL103 of any type. It's a low eff. mass tonearm. The DL-103 like them hefty. Other MC's are typically low compliance too, maybe the Denon DL-301 is the border line compromise in this case. The old Ortofon VMS20E, and the Stanton 681eee or 881S are a match from heaven for this one.

 

[jojo0416]

Thank you Tom! I'll look for any of the 3 mentioned carts then.

 

[jojo0416]

If I may add I aligned my cart using the Thoren's protractor on line, what's brilliant is when I flipped the rubber mat, it has it's own protractor molded on the underside!
The on-line protractor and on the rubber mat are the same, but of course I will not rest my stylus on rubber in the risk but I can spot the cart alignment easily
Also on the TD-147 user manual, apparently it has the factory damping material installed, on mine was not placed there by its previous owner.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Do the 145, 160 & 165 all fit the same plinth? Any others models that do so?

 

[reynolds753]

Looking good!!!

I love the TP-16 Mk-II with the TP-63 wand, but it's not, in no way, suitable for a Denon DL103 of any type. It's a low eff. mass tonearm. The DL-103 like them hefty. Other MC's are typically low compliance too, maybe the Denon DL-301 is the border line compromise in this case. The old Ortofon VMS20E, and the Stanton 681eee or 881S are a match from heaven for this one.

I have a TP-16 MKII with the TP-62 wand. The 62 is for me a PITA to set up. That said, I was using a Shure 97xe with it. I have moved it over to my SME II improved arm on my other Thorens 160. My question is this: what would your recommendations be for current, easily obtainable cartridges/styli for the TP-16/TP-63 set up?

 

[sienahounds]

I’m hoping someone here can assist me in finding TD-125 Mkii dust cover hinges. Thanks in advance.

 

[lightcapture]

I know a lot of people here don't approve of new Thorens turntables. But I feel my 3 month old Thorens TD-203 turntable, w/ electronic speed change and TP-82 uni-pivot arm is every bit as good as the older Thorens turntables. Paired w/ an Ortofon 2m Blue and Schiit Mani phono stage it has excellent detail, bass, soundstage, and PRaT. I'm so impressed that if I were to step up, a new TD-309 w/ electronic speed change, sprung isolation feet and TP-92 tonearm would be the one to get for me. Just my 2¢ from a satisfied Thorens owner.

 

[Grbluen]

@lightcapture,
That's a really nice looking table!

 

[jojo0416]

Hi, Any other recommended tweaks or simple upgrade that I can do on my TD 147 before I go cart hunting? I believe I've set vtf, and alignment correctly, what about the vta there's approx 0.9mm clearance on my table?



Installed is an Ortofon OM20, sounds just okay to me but I wanted to make sure getting a new cart will make it sound close to my SL1200/Denon DL103r combo if not better (is this unfair comparison?...thoughts).

 

[user510]

Hi, Any other recommended tweaks or simple upgrade that I can do on my TD 147 before I go cart hunting? I believe I've set vtf, and alignment correctly, what about the vta there's approx 0.9mm clearance on my table?

View attachment 1411524

Installed is an Ortofon OM20, sounds just okay to me but I wanted to make sure getting a new cart will make it sound close to my SL1200/Denon DL103r combo if not better (is this unfair comparison?...thoughts).

Pivot bearings on the TP16 tonearm (like yours) tend to work loose over time. Often times Thorens tonearm performance can be restored to factory fresh levels by a simple bearing adjustment.
-Steve