Thoughts of static charge on vinyl records…(long and somewhat technical)

[eis01]

I have always had real good luck with my trusty Zerostat . Used to use Permostat back in the day.

 

[phantomrebel]

I have always had real good luck with my trusty Zerostat . Used to use Permostat back in the day.

My experience with this device is the same as the Shure technicians:
"Another form of active ionizer is in the form of a pistol-shaped, device, which produces positive ions when the trigger is pulled, and negative ions when the trigger is released. This device is effective for large charges, but it is hard to avoid leaving residual charges on the record since there is no way of detecting the zero charge condition."

As stated in the OP, I never could get consistent results.

 

[ripblade]

My experience with this device is the same as the Shure technicians:
"Another form of active ionizer is in the form of a pistol-shaped, device, which produces positive ions when the trigger is pulled, and negative ions when the trigger is released. This device is effective for large charges, but it is hard to avoid leaving residual charges on the record since there is no way of detecting the zero charge condition."

As stated in the OP, I never could get consistent results.

Where I've found the Zerostat most useful is when removing the record from the platter, when, according to Shure engineers, the charge can increase 10 fold. The Zerostat may not be able to null a charge completely, but it's very good at bringing that 10 fold down to practically nill.

It's not the final answer in the war on static, but it's a useful weapon to have in the arsenal.

 

[phantomrebel]

Where I've found the Zerostat most useful is when removing the record from the platter, when, according to Shure engineers, the charge can increase 10 fold.
.

I missed this. Can you quote where this was observed by Shure? What I saw was the charge was present, then reduced when in contact with the platter, and then returned to full strength upon removal. So the record was charged to begin with (no net increase).

Edit: never mind, I think I now understand what you are saying. You treat the record when it has its maximal charge. Makes sense.

 

[pustelniakr]

Achieving a perfect null is likely impossible with the Zerostat, but I have been using them to great effect for almost 40 years. Generally, dry-brushing an LP results in quite a static charge, causing the attraction of airborn trash right away. The Zerostat takes the charge down to where no significant attaction or perceivable static is left (you can blow what was attracted right off with a gentle puff, hopefully dry one). You do have to be careful during squeeze and release, to avoid going to slow (low voltage generated), or going too fast (too high of voltage, resulting in internal arcing). I zap before brushing, and real good after brushing, and again before insertion in the inner sleeve, after play.

Enjoy,
Rich P

 

[ripblade]

I missed this. Can you quote where this was observed by Shure? What I saw was the charge was present, then reduced when in contact with the platter, and then returned to full strength upon removal. So the record was charged to begin with (no net increase).

Edit: never mind, I think I now understand what you are saying. You treat the record when it has its maximal charge. Makes sense.

It's in the 1st table.

That charge increases whilst removing the record has been my own observation as well. I found it interesting that Shure engineers were able to actually measure the increase and confirm my observations. It also demonstrates that zapping the record on the platter is relatively less effective.

What they don't mention is what type of mat was on the platter, if there was any. I've found that using PVC as a mat material tends to generate less charge during the dusting and playback process. Lifting the record off afterwards shows virtually no charge increase, as well.

 

[eis01]

Achieving a perfect null is likely impossible with the Zerostat, but I have been using them to great effect for almost 40 years. Generally, dry-brushing an LP results in quite a static charge, causing the attraction of airborn trash right away. The Zerostat takes the charge down to where no significant attaction or perceivable static is left (you can blow what was attracted right off with a gentle puff, hopefully dry one). You do have to be careful during squeeze and release, to avoid going to slow (low voltage generated), or going too fast (too high of voltage, resulting in internal arcing). I zap before brushing, and real good after brushing, and again before insertion in the inner sleeve, after play.

Enjoy,
Rich P

I've always carbon-fiber brushed then zapped but it make sense to zap before brushing too. You're right about the squeezing action, it is a bit tricky to get it right.

 

[pustelniakr]

I've always carbon-fiber brushed then zapped but it make sense to zap before brushing too. You're right about the squeezing action, it is a bit tricky to get it right.

Also, do NOT zap with the LP on the platter. Hold it in you hand, away from metal and grounded surfaces, which will divert the produced ion streams away from the LP.

Enjoy,
Rich P

 

[phantomrebel]

Also, do NOT zap with the LP on the platter. Hold it in you hand, away from metal and grounded surfaces, which will divert the produced ion streams away from the LP.

Enjoy,
Rich P

True, but in addition, as pointed out by Ripblade, you are "zapping" the lp in it's most charged state. Then, when you return it to the platter, any charge imbalance becomes even less. (I've also believed in potential equipment damage by platter use, but few agree with this as reports are scarce).
That said, I never had any use for ionizers or brushes of any kind since incorporating chemical surface treatments so it's been a good 20+ years since I had a Zerostat in my drawer. I do wish I kept one for my coffee grinder however.

 

[pustelniakr]

It is possible the the slight offset from null gets distributed upon re-placement on the platter. All that I know is that when an LP is seriously charged after a brushing, and particles jump on right away (before I can zap), after a careful double zap proces, you can tip the LP and the attracted particulates just fall off. Couple that with proper ingreedients in the special sauce and things should be quite good indeed. I am of the opinion that when zapping on the platter, the produced ion stream heads straight for the spindle, doing little to nothing for treating the static on the LP.

Enjoy,
Rich P

 

[dddeskt0p]

...I have used it effectively to wipe down listening spaces, even my headphones, and it removed grime and eliminated static as advertised.
I should mention that companies like 3M (http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/60040O/3mtm-quat-disinfectant-cleaner-concentrate-5l-and-5h.pdf), ZEP, and Chlorox (https://www.cloroxprofessional.com/...-quaternary-disinfectant-cleaner/at-a-glance/) also make quat mix solutions for commercial cleaning, I just never have tried or investigated them for record use. Also, these cleaners should not be applied with cotton rags as cotton is negatively charged so the quats will stick to them instead of acting on the surface.

Thanks for all the info in this thread, it's been very helpful. My local university has a re-use center that has unopened bottles of 3M quat cleaners, but they're past the expiration dates printed on the bottles. Do you think this would matter for use in record cleaning?

 

[phantomrebel]

Thanks for all the info in this thread, it's been very helpful. My local university has a re-use center that has unopened bottles of 3M quat cleaners, but they're past the expiration dates printed on the bottles. Do you think this would matter for use in record cleaning?

I wouldn't think so. Firstly, nothing can grow in this solution so it is not subject to contamination or microbial breakdown. Secondly, the quats within are very slow to oxidize (even less so in unopened containers). I'm not sure why they put expiration dates on these "256" type quat cleaners other than for some legal reason. Maybe those that contain ethanol can experience some evaporation, but by and large, they are as stable as the Palmolive under your kitchen sink.

 

[dddeskt0p]

Thank you for the speedy reply, I'll give them a shot!

 

[Aerobat]

I find a Thunderon brush works well for charged-up records.

 

[meggy]

^ +1.

 

[misterjones]

Great post! This is especially important reading for those of us who favor direct drive tables as the major disadvantage to them is that they can behave like a electrostatic generator especially in winter. When I use a certain cartridge and stylus on my P Mount deck, the ticks and pops are so loud that I often wonder if I'm not hearing static sparks jumping between the tip and the groove.

I use Pfan-Stat in the winter and it really does make difference.

Pfan-Stat comes in a spray or a regular bottle and with and without a brush (I've seen video of people using microfiber cloths). Any preferences? I would think the bottle and brush at least would be the most convenient (i.e., a few dabs on the brush then a wipe down).

 

[woodj]

Where does static charge come from?

Excellent writeup.
The only minor correction (although it does not conflict with the basic premise here) is that atoms do not give up electrons but rather excess energy contained in the electron cloud of one is transferred to the next giving it an excess of energy; and conversely an atom may be deprived of energy transfer when it's adjacent cousin is also in a similar depleted situation.

 

[misterjones]

I never tried the bottle and brush so I can't state a preference. I use the spray pump and a lint free cloth. Seems to do the trick. I follow the instructions on the bottle which is to spray the record directly two or three times and then wipe.

I'm probably over-thinking this, but my concern with the spray is that there would be a good chance of missing the record and/or releasing particles in the air and inhaling it and/or getting the stuff on my skin (or wherever). I know it has lead in it and I think my wife would say it's a biohazard. She thinks just about everything stronger than baking soda and lemon juice is a biohazard, but I wonder if she could be close to being right in this instance.

 

[misterjones]

It has lead in it? Doesn't seem to me that they'd be able to sell it if that were the case. I know mine has a warning on it that it contains substances known in the state of California to be hazardous or carcinogenic--something bad. But so does grilled chicken.

For some reason, it's a debatable issue. Here's one on the lead side:

http://all-unique.com/pfan-stat-record-cleaning-fluid-p-391.html

EDIT - I don't care what California says, grilled chicken has nothing but tasty chicken goodness in it.

 

[woodj]

It has lead in it?

Even if it had lead in it, the lead would be too dense for it to float around in the air.