Time capsuling a Marantz (or other vintage)

dotnetpete

New Member
I've been thinking lately that maybe I would box up and store one of my Marantz receivers for a *really* long time, like 10 years, 20 years, or more. That way, many years down the road, I would have a unit in excellent condition to enjoy for the rest of my life. These units seem relatively plentiful now, but what about 20 years from now? The supply can only decrease as more and more units break and people that aren't collectors throw them away.

A couple of questions right off the bat:
Do electronics like this need to be used at least every now then to keep them in good shape? There may be some good technical arguments for playing the unit at least every x number of years/months.

What's the best way to store this stuff for years at a time? There are procedures to do this for engines, but what about electronics?

(I'm pretty sure I'd like to do this...imagine the pleasure of unboxing a pristine receiver twenty years from now, which would make its age be 50+ years. I have the stamina and patience to do this. Case in point: I'm a classical fan, as well as prog, electronic and obscure metal. When I started listening to classical seriously about 25 years ago, I was devouring the great pieces at a huge rate. I realized I would soon run out of the classics. At the time, I hadn't yet heard Beethoven's Eighth symphony. So I time-capsuled it for myself, so to speak. I still haven't heard it, except a few minutes of the end on the radio once by accident. I've walked out of cafes when announcers have said it was coming on. This has happened maybe three times in those years. I still have a whole new Beethoven symphony to get to know...it will be my sixtieth or seventieth birthday present to myself :music: )
 
Pretty interesting way to suspend life's pleasures...it begs the question how you would feel if you were told you only had 15 minutes to live...would you have regrets? You sound quite a bit like myself...I have some recordings in my cd collection that date 10 years or more....unopened. They are awaiting the perfect day for listening....I would not have the forbearance, however, not to listen to a symphony of Beethoven's for a good part of my life!
I have limited tech knowledge about electronics...but on or off the cap's in the unit would "dry" out and need looking at. In twenty years time I wonder if any one would still be around to service it!
 
I couldn't do it. I think that a vintage audio museum is a great idea but I don't like the idea of socking it away for any amount of time. Why wouldn't you use it? An interesting idea though.

Good luck,
Rick
 
Ever hear the adage...use it or lose it?

Me and my stuff are here today. One of us just not might be here tomorrow.

I'm not taking any chances...good luck to you.
 
onepixel said:
Ever hear the adage...use it or lose it?

Me and my stuff are here today. One of us just not might be here tomorrow.

I'm not taking any chances...good luck to you.

Agreed..Besides, why do you think we all have several set-ups?? Back-up!:thmbsp:
 
onepixel said:
Me and my stuff are here today. One of us just not might be here tomorrow.

I'm not taking any chances...good luck to you.

Sure, I hear that. I'm not talking about using no vintage between now and then...just preserving one or two really good ones as backups for down the road. Relatively speaking, they're cheap and plentiful now, with lots of spare parts and people who can fix them. What will the situation be in 2025 or 2030?
 
dotnetpete said:
Sure, I hear that. I'm not talking about using no vintage between now and then...just preserving one or two really good ones as backups for down the road. Relatively speaking, they're cheap and plentiful now, with lots of spare parts and people who can fix them. What will the situation be in 2025 or 2030?

It will be a pretty sorry future if we do not continue to use our gear and generate a demand for parts and people to service them. If people see them in use it will keep the flame burning. Especially if they hear them.

Rick
 
I know for a fact that audio gear will deteriorate just as fast or faster from non use as it would from using it daily. Over 20 years ago I bought 4 new Kenwood KT-917 tuners on closeout from WDS. Sold 2 for the amount I paid for all 4. I put one to work and put the other one still new in the box factory sealed in the closet and forgot about it for over 20 years.

Several years ago I sold the 917 I was using , they are still sought after today. . . I sold the NIB tuner to a buddy of mine also at a premium. Before shipping it I decided to open the box and take a last look at one of the finest tuners ever built.

She still looked brand new but when I plugged her in she didn't work. . . Not knowing what was wrong I notified my friend who had bought it and he said ship it anyway that he could and would fix it. I don't know what all he had to do but the problems were directly related to non use. . .

Also in the past few years I have bought and sold hundreds of vintage Pioneer receivers SX-780/850/1050 mainly. I searched for only mint units. I found several NOS units that had never been taken out of the box. . .Not one NOS unit worked properly. The best receivers were the ones that remained plugged in and used at least once a month for an hour or so.

There are people who cryvac(sp) or shrink wrap units then put them into storage. Many 'horders' do this. . .

I would think you could do this but do some research first to see what you need to do to preserve one of these things first.
 
I don't think I would get any more pleasure opening a mint in box stereo 20yrs from now than I would listening to it everynow and then now.Like what was said before you never know when this could be your last day on this earth whether your 20 or 60 .Why wait.
 
The best thing is to completely dehydrate them from surface moisture (slow, warm (not hot) bake for a short while, and then hermetically seal them -in a vacuum is theoretically best, but pure Nitrogen is much safer and more practical, as a vacuum invites leakage and infriltration by dirty/damp air. Heavy glass container is best for true isolation, then protected against breakage.

A simpler way to DIY it is to use one of those vacuum-storage bags that you use your vacuum cleaner to suck the air out of. Include a dessicant package or two inside the bag with the gear, to soak up any residual/excess moisture (remember it may condense out of what air is left, when the temperature changes). Remove the thing and play it for a while (24 hours or so) a couple times a year, before re-sealing it. Always use gloves to handle it, so fingerprints don't cause corrosion spots. This should extend the lifespan considerably.

Water is a major enemy. Pollutants in the air are another. Insects and pests (like rats gnawing on cords) are another. Temperature swings by themselves aren't too harmful (will be less than the swings that occur from using the gear and turning it off each day --those do cause stress cracks in solder joints over time), unless they cause condensation (=water damage). Mold is a potential enemy, which thrives on damp, dark places. UV light is an enemy, so despite the better conditions for mold, a dark place is best.

Remember to also store user and service manuals, and a stockpile of likely-to-fail parts. Even things like caps made today will last longer than the old ones in the machine. Keep a list of parts and check periodically - say, once a year. When you hear a component has gone out of production and likely to become unobtanium, grab some spares.

Another approach is to have several of the same unit and rotate them, so each one gets periods of use, and also periods of rest.

Lastly, despite one's best efforts, nothing lasts forever, including each of us. Remember Ozymandius! Enjoy what you have and the time you have with it.
To everything, there is a season...let it be. [Okay, I'll shut up now... :D ]
 
Gyusher, can you change your Avatar, I just smudged my screen to kill your bug :yes:


:D
 
After many years of storage, you will need to reform the caps by bringing up the AC slowly. Not sure I like the vacuum packing, I do like the nitrogen idea. I am not sure the Electrolytic caps will like being in a vacuum.


jk
 
20 years from now, you will still be able to get your Marantz repaired.... I'd rather use the equipment now and in the future!
 
There may be a couple of practical issues to discuss.

1) There may not be any analog AM or FM to listen to so a receiver may lose some of its functionality.

2) Electrolytic caps can dry out even in storage so that could be a problem. A vacuum bagged unit MAY have more problems, not less with this since there is no humidity and no equalized air pressure. I suspect you would have to consult with a cap manufacturer on this and the aformentioned reforming issue.

3) Be sure to put some type of preservative on the power cord and maybe include connecting cords/cables too (mostly the interconnects).

4) Lots of stuff with metal surfaces MAY require some type of preservative to protect against corrosion, despite your storage ideas (you can never predict if your basement gets flooded, you get a hot humid summer, rats get into the box, etc. So maybe some aluminum preservative (petroleum jelly?) or other coating could be useful.

I've got a few older Marantz pieces that look like they were in a smoking environment and the faceplates look trashed and discolored.

5) Definitely have the Service manual in there and be sure is legible. If there is a defect upon opening, hopefully there will still be someone around who can learn how to fix it.

6) :) What makes you think we'll still have electricity available cheaply to run stereos in 20 to 30 years?



Regards,

Bart
 
20 years from now.....

the unit may not work, music signal format may be different and such a receiver may not be able to pick up the signal or whatever. Who knows what it will be like..........
 
Just in case....let us (me) know where you bury it. :D

Kidding aside make sure you find a prime example with all original manuals, box, and extra bulbs.

Whoever opens it up 20-30 years from know will definitely get a kick! :yes:
 
As long as there are pots and switches, they will fare better being actuated on a regular basis. 'Lytic caps and rubber will deteriorate regardless of use or lack of it.

Even gear that you use should get a once a month actuation of all user controls, internal relays, solenoids and switches, just to keep the contact surfaces associated with them clean and free from corrosion and schmutz.

Enjoy,
Rich P
 
I think it's a great idea, and I'd love to hear a really detailed explanation. I have some electronics that have been in storage now almost 20 years waiting for space (mostly) to set them up and the anticipation of finally getting them back is exceptional.

As far as use it or lose it goes, well, he isn't losing it even if he doesn't use it. It's in safe-keeping.

I might make one suggestion and that is to look for the most common spares needed (e.g. tuner cord, light bulbs, various caps, extra power cord, darlington powerpaks) and bundle them up with it in case there aren't any (or prices are sky-high) when it is re-opened. Have the parts available with it.
 
It is a great idea, lots of fun and as one poster pointed out, the anticipation is half the enjoyment. I am a technician who has spent the last 20 years fixing other peoples hifi and let me say, anything I have mint in its box always works perfectly when removed. The only things that don't are cassette decks (belts). My father has kenwood gear from 1975 new sealed in boxes. A brand new marantz 1060 and case still in their boxes, complete right down to the original ties round the power cords and the same tape sticking the plastic bag closed. I have sealed sony ES gear from 1990, complete limited edition Akai components, all sorts of gear in my storeroom. Bags of silica gel and good storage- that's all you need. Time capsuling is a great idea if you have heaps of gear, saves constantly dusting it and not using it. I get a local hifi store to save all the big HT amp boxes for me (especially the yamaha ones) as they are big, strong and stackable (same size). Another great box to get is LCD computor monitor boxes, especially the 17" and 19" ones as they are perfect for hifi components. Pack the gear well, forget the museum preservation room antics, just a plastic bag, silica gel and a box and it will be fine for 20 years. Caps leak regardless of what you do, if they were going to leak in the first place. Here's another thing- only a small percentage of caps leak, just like a small percentage of lightbulbs last only 1000 hours. Most don't and last for many times their rated life. The interesting thing about a cap failure curve is after the accelerated failure period is passed at end of life, (almost all the gear we have is past it), the failure rate actually stabilises indefinitely at the same or lower rate than when the cap was brand new. All this cap scare mongering really annoys me- I have hundreds of hifi components and my dad has hundreds more. I would do perhaps one to two repairs a year that are capacitor related- that is less than 1%. The gear he collects is early 70's to late 70's whereas my interest lies in the 80's to very early 90's and I am finding more capacitors leaking in my parts drawers (new ones!) than in the old gear. I recently had to throw out 80 nichicon and elna caps on their pick and place looms due to leaking and they were only a few years old and never used. You really have to question the practice of replacing perfectly functioning components with new ones that have no proven life in your gear. Anyway I think timecapsuling is great- do it if you have too much gear, not enough time and no surfaces to put it on- it's also a great way to hide gear from the wife and bring it out later and say...'oh that thing, I've had it for years...':thmbsp:
 
One side of me says these units have proven to be unbelievably well built...other side says who knows what the future brings. However, the durability has been excellent..... I have 3 Marantz from the early/mid 70's. I have recapped two of them.... While I only found one bad cap in those two units in close to 100 caps. The sound quality improved greatly with the recapping....

While the last 35 years can not be a 100% indication of the next 35 years.... It can come pretty close to telling you what will happen.... I think discrete components will still be available 35 years from now... That is the real benefit of the designing with ( besides sound quality ) discrete components. Meaning they are the basic components used in many deferent devices.... In October 1745, Ewald Georg von Kleist of Pomerania invented the first recorded capacitor. The transistor was invented in 1947 at Bell Labs.... The transistor is a youngster in comparison to the capacitor.... Think both will be around for some time to come in improved versions for us to use... The vacuum tube was invented in 1904 and it's still with us....

Semi Custom audio chips.... well those might be a totally different story 35 years later.....

Lastly Heat is the number one issue that shortens the life of any electronic or mechanical device otherwise operating within its design ranges.... Hence the reason initial testing is called "BURN-IN".... Heat and vibration testing, AKA: Shake and Bake, are used in new product testing to determine product reliability....it accelerates the aging process.


Except for the odd bad cap, tuner cords or rubber parts.... I think Marantz units will surprise us once again 30 years from now....with some luck and good maintenance, I hope I am still around to be surprised by my 65 year old Marantz...


jk
 
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