Tips and Tricks on touching up Hi fi your Selling

[savatage1973]

I'd rather get one that needs a little work (like the Specialized Crossroads Sport I restored for my younger daughter) than take chances on something that's been monkeyed with.

This is why I'd rather buy something that is all-original or "unmolested", even if not in full working order, over something that has been "repaired" or "recently serviced" without any proper documentation. I know what kind of nightmare I might be in for, but don't want to track down and fix whatever nightmare you have created.

 

[Wildcat]

This is why I'd rather buy something that is all-original or "unmolested", even if not in full working order, over something that has been "repaired" or "recently serviced" without any proper documentation. I know what kind of nightmare I might be in for, but don't want to track down and fix whatever nightmare you have created.

Exactly! Taking it to an extreme and going beyond what I call "home brain surgery disasters," techs or home repairs that claim to "improve" something are just as bad, if not worse. For Conrad-Johnson, they have said 1) they have to charge money to undo the "improvements" that some hacks have done to their components, and 2) it's unbelievable the things they have seen done to their components over the years!

I had an uncle who was always going through different jobs and was always short of money. When he finally had to "retire" (or in other words, couldn't find another job due to emphysema), he "repaired" TVs in his basement. His technique? He would short out components in the TV (like capacitors, resistors, etc.) until it came back to life, then having identified the part, would replace it. I don't even think he had the money to buy a multimeter! The emphysema did him in; I'm surprised he wasn't electrocuted.

 

[mprince]

Well, as a buyer, if I buy used equipment, the first thing I do is go through it and clean it up. Plus, most used/vintage equipment I buy needs some level of work anyway so it gets torn into pretty much as soon as I get it. So, I am in the camp as a buyer that a bit of dust and fingerprints won't deter me if I find a piece I am looking for. In fact, to me overly staged, pristine pictures are a sign that the seller is overselling the unit a bit or perhaps trying to represent it as more than it actually is (no offense meant to those who do this, I just usually move on from these listings unless it truly is something special).

If you are serious about improving the appearance of black faceplate nicks, don't use a Sharpie pen, show a buyer you care and spend the $5 on a Birchwood-Casey paint pen . Fortunately bad Sharpie jobs (and there are way more bad ones than good ones) are usually easily rectified.

When I sell a unit, I will dust it for pictures so it doesn't look like it came from Fred Sanford's yard, but if there are cosmetic issues, I will reflect this as part of the price as needed (downward adjustment if the appearance is worse than normal wear and tear, or upwards if it is a truly exceptional example). Trying to mask all of the marks, IMO, is not going to fetch more money on a sale and as others have mentioned, your buyer will feel like they have been misled when they receive the unit (if the fixes are not done well).

 

[Wildcat]

There are a couple of really good sellers on eBay that I follow. This is one (no affiliation):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232702327012?ViewItem=&item=232702327012

If you look at the photos, he takes care to make certain all of the flaws are clearly shown, and this auction here is no exception. They test their items before shipping, and I believe they also have the ability to do minor repairs so the buyer has something 100% functional and works as described. For cosmetics, all they really do is clean things up--any flaws are untouched, and shown in the photos as best they can. The minor flaws in this auction certainly wouldn't bother me if I had the dinero to win it.

On the other hand, I've visited some local listings (CL, estate sales, even eBay) where the seller didn't exactly hide the defects, but seeing it in person made the unit look much worse than in the photos. Some defects are hard for an average seller to photograph, or they can't be bothered (or don't have time) to take in-depth photos. I see that most with estate sales--they have hundreds of items to photograph, and don't have time to pose each one or take multiple photos to show off defects.

 

[OMGCat!]

And let me guess...you're like me, in that you usually know exactly where certain tools are located in your "mess." I do admit to getting more frustrated lately, though, as I've gotten forgetful in where I put things now, and I'll take an hour trying to find tools to do a 15 minute repair job. My better half has threatened to buy me a tool cabinet. I'm starting to think I should take her up on that offer...

I am typically able to put a hand on what tool I'm looking for within a few seconds. Every once in a while my messiness gets to me though. Something will hide under something else and I can't find it to save my life.
Funny thing is my workbench at home is pretty spotless.

This is why I'd rather buy something that is all-original or "unmolested", even if not in full working order, over something that has been "repaired" or "recently serviced" without any proper documentation. I know what kind of nightmare I might be in for, but don't want to track down and fix whatever nightmare you have created.

I'm 100% on this too. I won't buy anything that's been serviced by someone else. I just don't trust anyone but me (and I might be too cheap to buy from a known restorer because I can do it myself).
Thing is I sell a lot of serviced units because most people who are looking into vintage have no intention of learning to do this themselves or trying to source a tech who can do the work in their area. They typically want a plug and play whatever and don't want to have to worry about crackly controls or noisy transistors or whatever.

 

[biscuithead]

That is a question that shouldn't be asked--kind of like how old is your wife or daughter. I just plead the 5th--"I don't recall--it's been here a while and I just dug it out to go through it". Enough said. I may offer up information regarding my time and price of parts (even receipts, if available), but you don't need to know what (if anything) I paid for it--just judge what it is worth to YOU now that it is up and running and looking the way it does. If you don't think my price is fair, move along--NEXT...

I completely understand your point.

I have been in so many circumstances in my life where I am selling something ( I use to have a sports memorabilia store ) and when a prospective buyer finds out that the seller is making money ( profit, which is the purpose of retail sales ) then the prospective buyer, regardless of a below market price, becomes less interested.

My take :

Profiteering with misrepresentation, should be abhorred.

But when a seller is forthcoming, without misrepresentation, shouldn't it be commended ? ... I don't know, there are many perspectives and far too many possible situations.

*The human condition is a complicated mechanism. We idolize good businessmen, for their business acumen, yet "business acumen" often dwells in levels of dishonesty, or omitting details.

These are points that I continuously ponder.


.

 

[lifer70]

As to the question by the OP -
I usually try to make items I sell pleasing to the eye without being sneaky.
A couple of areas that are pet leave of mine are dirty knobs on the front and dusty RCA's and speaker connections on the back. So easy to clean. A toothbrush and soapy water on the knobs and a large artists paint brush on the RCA's and speaker connections.
Easy stuff!

 

[Wildcat]

I usually try to make items I sell pleasing to the eye without being sneaky.

And you would think some sellers would take a moment to do just that. Anything is easier to sell if it is clean! Even if it has a few battle scars (what doesn't?), I'll accept that over being afraid to touch something that is filthy.

 

[savatage1973]

I've visited some local listings (CL, estate sales, even eBay) where the seller didn't exactly hide the defects, but seeing it in person made the unit look much worse than in the photos.

I recently went to go potentially purchase a pair of speakers from a CL seller--photos were great and everything claimed to be in good working order. Apparently, he was a far better photographer than salesman--when I arrived, the speakers were plunked down in the middle of a filthy garage floor (with no cardboard or towel to protect what once was nice real walnut veneer), they sure didn't look like the pictures and no means to hook them up and test them. I inquired about hooking them up to something/anything to "audition" them (at least verify that all drivers worked), and it was like I had questioned his lineage--I had apparently seriously offended him by questioning his "word" that everything was "perfect". Sorry--been on this little orb for almost 60 years and NO, I will not just take your word for it--back in my truck and gone--not even a stupidly low offer on the table--just "over it".

Profiteering with misrepresentation, should be abhorred.

But when a seller is forthcoming, without misrepresentation, shouldn't it be commended ?

I have friends (a father/son team--I went to HS with the son), and they own a small boutique business restoring MG roadsters. They do everything to perfection--all original parts down to every last screw/fastener/nut and bolt. Anything absolutely not available is hand fabricated to spec. They do multiple cross-country road trips every year with a box truck and car trailer (like American Pickers) to grab anything MG they can find. I don't think I have seen a single car leave their garage for under mid-6 figures in the past 10 years (at least). Some buyers will ask "where in hell did you find that?" or "how did you get the stitching on the seats that perfect?--but no one bats an eye when they write the check. People who know what they want and truly appreciate it (whatever it may be) are willing to pay for it, and cost/profit/time on your part is of no interest to them--just what is up for sale and here right now.

 

[biscuithead]

I recently went to go potentially purchase a pair of speakers from a CL seller--photos were great and everything claimed to be in good working order. Apparently, he was a far better photographer than salesman--when I arrived, the speakers were plunked down in the middle of a filthy garage floor (with no cardboard or towel to protect what once was nice real walnut veneer), they sure didn't look like the pictures and no means to hook them up and test them. I inquired about hooking them up to something/anything to "audition" them (at least verify that all drivers worked), and it was like I had questioned his lineage--I had apparently seriously offended him by questioning his "word" that everything was "perfect". Sorry--been on this little orb for almost 60 years and NO, I will not just take your word for it--back in my truck and gone--not even a stupidly low offer on the table--just "over it".



I have friends (a father/son team--I went to HS with the son), and they own a small boutique business restoring MG roadsters. They do everything to perfection--all original parts down to every last screw/fastener/nut and bolt. Anything absolutely not available is hand fabricated to spec. They do multiple cross-country road trips every year with a box truck and car trailer (like American Pickers) to grab anything MG they can find. I don't think I have seen a single car leave their garage for under mid-6 figures in the past 10 years (at least). Some buyers will ask "where in hell did you find that?" or "how did you get the stitching on the seats that perfect?--but no one bats an eye when they write the check. People who know what they want and truly appreciate it (whatever it may be) are willing to pay for it, and cost/profit/time on your part is of no interest to them--just what is up for sale and here right now.

I am guessing that there is a different economic demographic between a buyer of a $100,000+ car and a buyer of a craiglist stereo for $100-200...
I had a handful of deep-pocket collectors that were interested in the primo and esoteric stuff, and they rarely balked at price. Those seem to be the minority.

 

[Wildcat]

People who know what they want and truly appreciate it (whatever it may be) are willing to pay for it, and cost/profit/time on your part is of no interest to them--just what is up for sale and here right now.

That is true. When I bought my power amp, I already had money set aside for one, and was watching a listing on CL for a few months. By about the third or fourth month, I finally got up the nerve to contact the seller. The house was unkempt, there were other questionable components strewn about the room, but the amp looked and sounded fine, if a bit dusty in the corners. I paid asking price. I was still in a bit of amazement the amp lasted that long on CL, as I've never seen another in the past couple of years at that low of a price, even for models that were cosmetically worse. It was one of the models I was considering, and the price was more than right. If anyone else had been seriously shopping for this amp, it would have sold immediately I'm sure.

But I know how many local CL buyers will make offers in this area--no offer is good unless it is a really deep lowball offer, along with the expected "you have no idea what these are selling for/I can buy these all day long at a third of the price" insults that comes with those offers. I really think it's this area. Good CL-ers are few and far between in my area, it seems (and that applies on both the buying and selling end).

 

[savatage1973]

But I know how many local CL buyers will make offers in this area--no offer is good unless it is a really deep lowball offer, along with the expected "you have no idea what these are selling for/I can buy these all day long at a third of the price" insults that comes with those offers. I really think it's this area. Good CL-ers are few and far between in my area, it seems (and that applies on both the buying and selling end).

CL is definitely a game--sometimes fun, sometimes not so fun. My last major (over a couple hundred bucks) transaction was for a pair of Vandersteen speakers that I didn't care for, but had bought just to try for a while. I set them up for the buyer to audition, he arrived on-time and we spent a couple hours together with them. He bought them--at the listed price--no haggling, no fuss, no muss. I had listed in my ad that I would deliver for a fee, since they were fairly large and have stands, and I have a truck. I delivered them, and took with me the 4 25' sets of 12 ga speaker wire that we had used during the audition (they have to be bi-wired). He had left a deposit, paid in full when I showed up with the speakers and gave me an extra $50 for the wires, just so he didn't have to go get them. Good deal!!

 

[Wildcat]

CL is definitely a game--sometimes fun, sometimes not so fun. My last major (over a couple hundred bucks) transaction was for a pair of Vandersteen speakers that I didn't care for, but had bought just to try for a while. I set them up for the buyer to audition, he arrived on-time and we spent a couple hours together with them. He bought them--at the listed price--no haggling, no fuss, no muss. I had listed in my ad that I would deliver for a fee, since they were fairly large and have stands, and I have a truck. I delivered them, and took with me the 4 25' sets of 12 ga speaker wire that we had used during the audition (they have to be bi-wired). He had left a deposit, paid in full when I showed up with the speakers and gave me an extra $50 for the wires, just so he didn't have to go get them. Good deal!!

Nice! I'm debating keeping or selling my 2CEs when I get my electrostatics in the system. That was another deal I grabbed locally--seller had been foreclosed on their home, and they were packing up to move to Texas within a few days. The guy's father originally owned them and he didn't really want to get rid of them, but couldn't take them either since they could only pack up so much. Needed them gone ASAP, and I was on them within hours of listing. The money was more than right, everything worked, and they're playing as I write this. (A "work from home" day for me.) Cosmetic issues? Sure, but very minor--a couple of small pulls in the socks (which are also a little dusty), and the endcaps could use some refinishing. A little dusty when I picked them up, but I vacuumed and wiped them down when I brought them home. From the listening position I don't even see the flaws.

 

[savatage1973]

Nice! I'm debating keeping or selling my 2CEs when I get my electrostatics in the system.

I don't own any E-stats (yet), but I have owned Apogee Divas and still own Maggie 3.6R's and Infinity Kappa 9's. Not knocking Vandy's, but once you get the E-stats up and running, I am speculating that they will be on the auction block fairly soon. They just seemed to lack the "detail" in the highs and mids that I am used to with ribbon, planar, quasi-ribbon/planar drivers--but maybe that is just me.

That is true. When I bought my power amp, I already had money set aside for one, and was watching a listing on CL for a few months. By about the third or fourth month, I finally got up the nerve to contact the seller.

I hear ya! At this point in my life, I am pretty much willing to "overpay" for something that I really want, and doesn't turn up all that often on any marketplace. It is what it is--if you've got it and I specifically want it, I have to pay to play, and I realize that. Coulda', woulda', shoulda' doesn't mean s**t, if you don't go there!

 

[Wildcat]

Not knocking Vandy's, but once you get the E-stats up and running, I am speculating that they will be on the auction block fairly soon. They just seemed to lack the "detail" in the highs and mids that I am used to with ribbon, planar, quasi-ribbon/planar drivers--but maybe that is just me.

I have to say I'm enjoying the relaxed nature of the Vandys, but after having heard the Martin Logan CLS II way back in 1987, I've been hooked on that planar sound ever since. I think what attracts me most is the lack of coloration in the mids and highs. I don't have the best Martin Logan model (I'm in the middle of refurbishing them, actually), but I have a feeling that once the money situation improves (got nailed by a tax bill this year), I'll move these along to get a much more modern ML system in the house. I had to pass up a local pair of ML Summits just this past week, in fact...1/4 the original retail price. Ouch.

I hear ya! At this point in my life, I am pretty much willing to "overpay" for something that I really want, and doesn't turn up all that often on any marketplace. It is what it is--if you've got it and I specifically want it, I have to pay to play, and I realize that.

I am normally a cheapskate by nature, so I tend to hold out for the best possible deal. I have to say I really didn't specifically want the Premier 11, but on the other hand, it was such a deal that I knew I wouldn't see it again for the price, and it would get me started on a tube power amp. And if I resell it, I will get more out of it than I bought it for, especially since I've refreshed the tubes. As luck would have it, there's a nice Premier 12 set on eBay (which I linked earlier) that I probably would have jumped on if I didn't have taxes to pay, and would have sold off the Premier 11 and another few things to cover them.

But I totally get the "pay to play" aspect of it. Components, even CD or vinyl. I've purchased a few LPs that were $50, but were so rare that there was no chance of me finding them anywhere in that condition in the forseeable future. Life's too short to miss out on something I might like! So in a sense, it balances out--the money saved on those killer deals gives a little leeway when I have to spend a little extra in the future. The power amps are one example, in fact. I have a feeling I will need to pay market price or even a little more to get a set when I am ready. But if I don't do it, I will regret it.

 

[savatage1973]

I am in favor of performing the most professional repair, and then disclosing the before and after pic to the buyer.

This something that I should do (and think about), but never seem to take the couple minutes to do it. You just see what is done and offered for sale--before and after might garner me more cash in the end, but I never remember to take the "before" pics.