Top-wrapping a Stop tailpiece, and the results of trying it...
- Thread starter Eywadude
- Start date
Eywadude
Lunatic Member
Yeah, Shapries don't work for every situation, but that one looked like it was a good candidate. Looks like it turned out alright.
Sharpies FTW. 
Also, I don't know if you used one or not, but for others reading I forgot to mention that more often than not a fine tipped Sharpie is best for most applications. It tends to get into nooks and crannies better and the smaller tip doesn't get on the surrounding finish if you don't want it to.
I have also heard of people using shoe polish in certain applications too.
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Eywadude
Lunatic Member
That's all in your head. If that were true they would come from the factory that way. people talk about raising and lowering the stop tail piece so the strings don't touch the tune o matic bar. from the saddles back means nothing. intonation is set from the saddles forward. you can get a Gibson SG model with a wrap around tail piece and even a 8000.00 paul reed smith with a wrap around tail piece. you are going to just scratch up your stop tail piece. Im sorry if I burst any bubbles................................................
Well, as you already said, the reason why no one sends them out of the factory that way is because it will mark the tailpiece over time. Top-wrapping the tailpiece is up to the player to decide to do, not the factory. So manufacturers send them out with the strings going through the tailpiece instead. I think that's common knowledge why they do that. You said the reason why within your own post. Congrats. However, it's called getting a different tailpiece and putting the original in the case if you have a scratch phobia.
But just because something comes out of the factory a certain way doesn't mean it is ideally set up in every aspect, and for every player. Again, it is up to the player to determine these things for themselves. Also, I didn't know I was talking about setting my intonation, so yeah, where did that come from exactly??? lol 
Here's the thing though: if you had any doubt, before I tried this I actually thought all this tail wrap nonsense was B.S. myself. Hence the reason why I had never tried it all these years and hence my 'rainbows, unicorns and fairy dust' comment. So if I was already biased toward thinking it was B.S., then my own bias confirmation should have led me towards hearing no difference at all. But that wasn't the case at all. Like I would "imagine" nearly doubling the sustain it ever had. Okay! Right on, brother!
If you can't offer any other/better setup ideas, or you can't add to this thread in an otherwise constructive way, then maybe this isn't the thread for you. No worries though, no bubbles burst. Just a lot of hot air and white noise. Thank you for telling me it's 'all in my head' though. Without you I would have been lost forever.
I think I can find my own way, thank you. Cheers.
valvenator
curious bystander, serious procrastinator
Had 3 LP type guitars through the years, a Japanese Halifax, Gibson Sonex and a genuine '79 standard.
Never did try wrapping over the top maybe because it just seemed 'wrong'.
Did you have to drop down the tailpiece? I wonder if that would have some impact on the sound?
I tried dropping the tailpiece down to the body on the '79. I don't recall if it changed the sound in any way, just that it made it much harder to bend the strings.
Never did try wrapping over the top maybe because it just seemed 'wrong'.
Did you have to drop down the tailpiece? I wonder if that would have some impact on the sound?
I tried dropping the tailpiece down to the body on the '79. I don't recall if it changed the sound in any way, just that it made it much harder to bend the strings.
Eywadude
Lunatic Member
Had 3 LP type guitars through the years, a Japanese Halifax, Gibson Sonex and a genuine '79 standard.
Never did try wrapping over the top maybe because it just seemed 'wrong'.
Did you have to drop down the tailpiece? I wonder if that would have some impact on the sound?
I tried dropping the tailpiece down to the body on the '79. I don't recall if it changed the sound in any way, just that it made it much harder to bend the strings.
Yeah, for sure. I always thought it looked 'wrong' too. Still do. I prefer the look of it set up the standard way for sure. It's a bit of a mixed bag, tonally, but I am still enjoying this experiment enough to stick with it for now. With this guitar anyway.
I did drop the tailpiece down against the body though. That is one thing you almost always have to do when you top-wrap the tailpiece. For people who are proponents of top-wrapping, they also say that dropping the tailpiece down all the way against the body "transmits more string vibration into the body" and gives the guitar "more sustain" and "better tone", and is a big part of the "magic" of this setup, etc. But it's also a necessity because in almost every instance when you top-wrap the tailpiece, the break angle between the bridge and the tailpiece is pretty much non-existent, so you have to drop the tailpiece down against the body anyway to restore enough break angle to keep the strings from popping out of the saddles when bending strings, etc. However, even with the break angle now being very shallow on my guitar, I have had no such issues at all. And that's with the already shallow string slots in the saddles that this guitar already has, so I wouldn't worry about it.
Also, by reducing the break angle by way of top-wrapping, (usually) it decreases the tension of the strings and gives the guitar a "slinkier" feel, which makes it easier to bend notes and perform vibrato, etc. However, beyond a reasonable explanation, after top-wrapping my guitar the strings were ever so slightly stiffer to play afterward. It wasn't hugely so, but apparently this is highly unusual after going with a top-wrap. Ususally you get a slinkier playing feel.
On the flip side though, dropping the tailpiece down without top-wrapping the strings can create too much of a break angle, which can actually lead to several issues. First being that, due to the even steeper break angle, the strings can potentially bind on the back of the bridge screws, or even the bridge housing itself, which is not a good thing. Also, if your bridge has the vintage-style thin screw posts that go directly into the wood instead of the more modern, thicker posts and lugs, the screw posts can actually bend due to the extreme downward pressure caused by the increased break angle. Also, in extreme cases, the metal hosing of the bridge can even begin to bend and flatten out over time, causing the radius of the bridge to no longer match that of the fretboard. The bridge can be bent back to proper radius if this happens (if done properly, carefully), but it's best to not go too hog wild with the break angle between the bridge and tailpiece. Under normal circumstances (with a normal bridge height and break angle) this would never happen, but dropping the tailpiece all the way down and increasing the string angle can cause enough tension and downward force to potentially cause issues down the road. As I said, under normal circumstances, this would never happen, but top-wrapping the tailpiece also reduces the pressure being exerted over the bridge even more and it further eliminates any potential issues.
Give it a shot though and if you do, let us know if it worked for you. Like I mentioned near the beginning of this thread, every guitar is different, so your results may vary, but it's worth a shot to see if it does anything for the guitar(s) you own.
Cheers.
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Binkman
Lunatic Member
I can see you try to get everything out of a setup you can. Pardon to many a purist but IMO people get to finicky about minor details like your mod. and everything must be factory orig. stuck in a hard shell case in a closet.
So far I've bought on the cheap neglected, not setup or abused by owners guitars so far I feel like the island of lost guitars. (to be con'd)
So far I've bought on the cheap neglected, not setup or abused by owners guitars so far I feel like the island of lost guitars. (to be con'd)
Eywadude
Lunatic Member
I totally respect that people don't want to mess with the look of their guitar though. This mod isn't for everyone.
Aesthetically, it isn't the best looking IMO, but not awful. At the very least, a separate tailpiece can be bought and the original put in the case if anyone is concerned with marring the original tailpiece.Buying guitars on the cheap is cool too though.
I don't own all vintage instruments. In fact, one of my favorite guitars of all time is a Squire '51 I bought brand new in 2004 for $220 with the intention of replacing the pickups and routing the neck pickup for a P-90. But literally 5 minutes after plugging it in for the first time just to see what it sounded like, I knew I had something special. Now I wouldn't sell that thing for anything. Value and desirability doesn't always determine tonal nirvana.If you haven't done it yet, you should post what you've got in the 'Let's See All Them Axes' thread. I'd love to see what you've got. You have me intrigued now.
Cheers.
