Tube amp topologies

I covet the knowledge that it obviously takes to operate tube gear properly, to its highest potential, but I don't think I can correctly process the info to accurately troubleshoot the delicate behavior of this gear. I'm afraid I'll have to admire tube rigs from afar, unless I get a bunch of money, inherit some tube gear, or finally learn the Greek lingo flying around this thread. Maybe I'll read and reread till I can spew forth the reqired language. There's no way to enjoy the added quality unless I can troubleshoot properly...
 
We are going toward the past bringing it to the future.

The only experience I have with tubes were the Klystron tubes. Used for military applications. 7.25 - 8.4 Ghz. Six channel cavity tuned and operated up to 10 KW. Also TWT (traveling waveguide tube).

Vacume tubes used for our audio experience can be overwhelming at first. This sticky is by far the best to get ones feet wet with tubes. I downloaded some of the books from Pete Millett's site. A lot of info to digest but time will settle that down. :thmbsp:
 
Without derailing this thread, I'd like to recommend John Rider's classic text "Inside the Vacuum Tube" as a rather friendly read for the initiate trying to understand the anatomy of and principles behind the electron tube (and for those who prefer the page to the screen:wave:). It hasn't left the bathroom since I bought it.

Great work here, Squidward.

-Brinkman


+1 on "Inside the Vacuum Tube" book.. for a newbie you will need to re-read until you understand then move on.. my experience. This book gets techie but not outside your abilities to understand and has diagrams to help you when you get confused.

Cheers,

Bob
 
A kind of bias, an automatic bias monitoring system like this..

From the Prima Luna Prologue One a review written here http://stereophile.com/integratedamps/205prima/

"In a normal fixed-bias amplifier, the output tube's cathodes are referenced directly to ground, and an independent negative voltage is applied to the signal grid: It's that bias that the AC music signal modulates, continuously varying tube current as it travels from the cathode to the anode, and allowing the high-voltage output to mimic the low-voltage input. But because temperatures can vary inside a tube amp, and because tubes, like people, begin to deteriorate from the moment they enter the workforce, the bias will require periodic correction. The bias may also need to be altered in the face of unusually loud or bass-heavy signals, to prevent the higher voltage from functionally adding to the bias—and thus limiting tube current and compressing the output. Croese's solution, called Adaptive AutoBias, is a circuit that continuously adjusts the bias voltage in response to changing temperatures and input signals. (Neither the J-FET op-amp at the heart of Croese's circuit, nor its supporting parts, is in the signal path. Adaptive AutoBias, which is the only major portion of the Prologue One that's laid out on a printed-circuit board, uses a reference signal derived from the amplifier's input.)

The result, according to Croese, is an increase in both performance and reliability—two things that don't always track one another in the minds of hard-core tube enthusiasts. And by taking the enthusiast out of the adjustment loop, the Adaptive AutoBias circuit ensures something else: moderation. "The adjustments made are very slight," Croese says, "within narrow margins, so that the tubes always operate in the parts of their range that are lowest in distortion.""


There is also self biasing or cathode bias or the fixed bias of the tubes input grid.

There is also the subject of battery biasing typically used small signal tubes which can be used on the grid or on the cathode of a tube.

I like to use LED biasing for my driver tubes in my SET amps.

And also what type of amplifier topology?

SET12
 
As an interested newbie to tube audio, I've been told that the unless one's speakers are driven by tube amp(s), you really can't get the sonic characteristics (2nd/3rd order harmonics, or whatever the "friendly" distortion is called). So, if you have a SS amp...essentially forget tube preamps, tube buffers etc...

Do I really have to start at the amp and work back to achieve tube sonics?
 
As an interested newbie to tube audio, I've been told that the unless one's speakers are driven by tube amp(s), you really can't get the sonic characteristics (2nd/3rd order harmonics, or whatever the "friendly" distortion is called). So, if you have a SS amp...essentially forget tube preamps, tube buffers etc...

Do I really have to start at the amp and work back to achieve tube sonics?

Get a PAS2 pre-amp and you can enjoy 2nd and 3rd order harmonics. If you have an integrated amp you can plug it into you AUX jack and get a taste of tube fun.

Cheers and happy new year.

Bob
 
I just bought a Mag 9302-00, and am having a great time listening to it. But I knew nothing about tubes, until I read this thread. I now know next to nothing, but next to nothing is still something!

Thanks for the great information, it was very good!
 
Thanks for starting this thread. I now have the courage to build a Fender Bassman head (the only thing I can find a pwr xfmr and OT for).
Just wondering, is there any real purpose for the metal cans around tubes? Do they increase life or improve sound?
I've also seen some sort of rubber bands for sale. ???
And finally, should I use black phenolic, ceramic, or tan wafer bases? It seems ceramic might handle heat better.
Thanks
 
To what does the "push-pull" refer then?

Ray

This is a very good question and I don't think it has been answered. If so, I missed it. Please allow me.

I'm sure you have seen photos of woodsmen using a two handled saw to fall a huge Fir tree. Operating from opposite ends of the saw blade, one man pushes the saw while the other pulls. In this way, they are able to double the power applied to the saw. And since we in audio measure power as wattage, you probably know where this is going.

So in a push-pull amp, the output transformer is wound with taps at each end, analogous to the two handles on the saw. A pentode or triode is placed at opposite ends of the output transformer and one pushes while the other pulls. Wattage is doubled.

It is necessary to send this "tube-pair" signals that are 180 degrees out of phase with one another so that they compliment rather than oppose each other. This is done with a "phase splitter", another tube that precedes the tube-pair in the circuit. There are many cleaver ways to accomplish this and that discussion is beyond the scope here, however when you study drawings it is useful to know that the signal from the plate of the phase splitter is 180 degrees out of phase with the signal from the cathode. One can also investigate paraphase circuits.
 
...
Just wondering, is there any real purpose for the metal cans around tubes? Do they increase life or improve sound? ...

Shielding. Specifically, it shields the elements and the electron flow inside the tube from interfering electromagnetic and radio frequency interference. The weaker the incoming signal is the more its needed. That's why you will often see the shields on the first tube in from magnetic phono, tape head and guitar pickups. They all produce very weak signals, mics too.

Shelly_D
 
Tube Amplifier Basics For Ultra-Dummies

I have been thinking about this quite a bit, and I feel I am ready to expose my ignorance and make a fool of myself. But while I am at it, I was thinking that perhaps smarter people than myself could chime in and nudge my incorrect thinking back into order again.

So...

First, you got your amplifier. It has two types of inputs and one type of output. The inputs are AC power from the wall and an audio signal from another device. If the amplifier does not contain a 'pre-amplifier' (which generally contains some form of input-switching and various controls like volume, tone, and balance in the case of stereo), then it gets its inputs from an external pre-amp of some sort. Otherwise, it might get its audio input from various devices like a turntable, CD player, tuner, etc.

Now, the audio signal in question is too low to be heard directly over speakers, so we need to 'amplify' it (hence, the name 'amplifier'). And certain types of tubes are very good at making a small signal into a much larger signal. The goal, of course, is to amplify that signal without excessive noise, coloration, or other forms of unhappy degradation (some types are less objectionable to the human ear than others, as it turns out).

But tubes by themselves cannot amplify the signal. Like a car, they need an engine to drive them. Tubes require two types of power, plate and filament. These are specified by voltage and current.

That brings us to the section of the amplifier that works with the AC power from the wall. The story begins with a power transformer (PT) (leaving out finer details like fuses and switches). The transformer is an electromagnetic device that uses the principles of 'inductive coupling' to cause electricity to flow on one side of the transformer (the primary) to the other side (the secondary). The ratio of windings 1:1, or 1:2, etc, and the number of secondary windings, allows a variety of different voltages to be taken from the power transformer's secondary windings. This is good, because as mentioned, the tubes generally require different voltages for the plate and the filament.

Now, once we have taken our power from the power transformer secondary windings, we need to turn it from AC (alternating current) to DC (direct current) power. We do this with a rectifier. Rectifiers can be either half-wave or full-wave, meaning that they 'smooth out' half of the AC sine wave (the 'alternating' part of AC power looks like a sine wave) or they smooth out the entire wave. Either way, you end up with DC power, which is what you want for the plate and filaments of the tubes.

You can use a tube or tubes to do the rectification. This tube or tubes would not be part of the amplifier circuit per se, but are rather part of the power circuit, since they do not have the audio portion of the incoming signal passing through them. However, they can impart coloration on the resulting music you hear, so some people design this portion of the amplifier quite carefully, and when you hear people talking about 'tube rolling', they are often talking about experimenting with different types, brands or even instances of various tubes to perform rectification.

You can also use a solid-state rectifier, which means that instead of a vacuum tube, you use either a diode (half-wave) or a set of four diodes (full wave). If you use a full-wave diode rectifier, that is commonly referred to as a 'bridge' rectifier.

The rectifier is not simply made up of tubes or diodes, however. Typically, adjustments are required to drop or raise voltage using capacitors and/or resisters, and in the case of tube rectifiers (and sometimes for solid-state rectifiers) a type of transformer known as a 'choke' is used to further smooth out the DC voltage and make it all flat-line and buttery smooth.

Now that we have our voltages and current all sorted out in the power section, we can apply that power to the pre-amp and amplifier tubes in the audio section. Once those tubes are powered up, they're ready to do what they were intended to do - amplify the audio signal. The tubes in question have a number of pins, which connect to plate, filament, and inputs and outputs for the audio signal, so all the action is taking place inside the tubes.

The incoming audio signal first goes to a tube or tubes that are designed to pop up the signal a little bit, with very high precision. The output of those tubes are then routed to the input of the 'output' tubes, which is where the major amplification takes place.

You need the pre-amp tubes because the output tubes are designed to amplify the signal that comes in by a certain number of times. So if a very small signal comes in an gets multiplied by say 100 times, then the output is much lower than if a larger signal comes in and gets multiplied by 100 times. But at the same time, the output tube is designed to work best amplifying a signal that comes within a certain set of parameters. So pre-amp tubes and amplifier tubes are designed to work together in that way. You need them both.

Once the audio signal is routed into the power (output) tubes, it gets amplified and sent out on a different set of pins on the tubes. In a 'single-ended' design, that's it for the amplification. This may result in not much output power, but it may be a more accurate or nicer-sounding amplification (to some, tastes vary widely and there is no one 'right' way). If more power is desired, the output of one set of power tubes can be sent into the input of another pair of input tubes (as long as it is within the design specs of the tubes) and it will be amplified yet again. Thus, a 2 watt output signal might become a 20 watt output signal, which basically means louder volume at the speakers. This is called a 'Push-Pull' amplifier (PP) instead of single-ended (SE). Typically, the tubes used in PP amplifiers are all the same tube number, but I guess it doesn't have to be that way. And yes, you could have a PPP or a PPPP amplifier for even more power, and there are such amplifiers, but the tube types that can handle the larger inputs can be expensive and rare, and distortion increases with each successive amplification.

Just as with the power section, the audio section is not only made up of tubes. There are also capacitors and/or resisters used through the audio signal. I'm a little fuzzy on what they do or why, but they're in there.

Finally, after the last tube has had it's wicked way with the audio signal, it it taken from the output pins on the last set of power tubes and put into the primary side of another transformer or set of transformers (for stereo), which are known as the output transformers (OPT). The audio output signal, by the way, is AC, since it looks like a sine wave. These OPTs take the output signal and use induction again (remember the PT) to turn it into a different voltage and current, which is then sent to the speakers. Typically, an OPT might have several secondary windings, each representing the appropriate nominal resistance of the speakers being used (4 ohms, 8 ohms, or less commonly these days, 16 ohms).

OK, so the basics - the ULTRA basics of tube amplifiers are these...

1) Power Transformer (PT). Turns the AC power into voltages the tubes need.

2) Rectifier. Tube or solid-state. Turns the AC into DC.

3) Choke (optional). A transformer-looking thing that makes the power even more creamy and good.

4) Preamplifier tube(s). Turns the incoming audio signal into a slightly larger audio signal, but does so with good precision.

5) Output or Power tube(s). Turns the audio signal from the pre-amp tubes into a much larger signal, which it may feed directly into the output transformers, or may feed into another stage of amplification (SE or PP).

6) Output transformer(s) (OPT). Turns the output signal from the last stage of amplification into something speakers can use to make sound.

If the amplifier is an 'integrated' amplifier, it may also have switches for selecting among different input signals, and it may have various controls for things like volume, balance, and tone. Sometimes there are tubes used in those signals as well; commonly on older designs, a 'phase inverter' tube that flips the signal on one side of a stereo pair to the opposite polarity. Sometimes fancy things like reverb and such were also seen on older amps.

If the amplifier is a 'power amplifier', it may lack much of anything except a power switch, AC in, audio in, and speaker outputs.

How's that? Feel free to tear me up here.
 
I try & would like to understand, but when I see things like the pic in yellow in post #9 (1st-page), I ask, why is there a lawn mower handle hooked up on top?
I guess this is why I can't follow, but hope to pick up a bit here and there. I'll keep a grade "F" for now and maybe some day work my way up to a "D"
 
I try & would like to understand, but when I see things like the pic in yellow in post #9 (1st-page), I ask, why is there a lawn mower handle hooked up on top?
I guess this is why I can't follow, but hope to pick up a bit here and there. I'll keep a grade "F" for now and maybe some day work my way up to a "D"

Speaking of a "D", that there "lawn mower handle" is a getter. Usually made of Barium which gets heated up during the tube manufacturing process after the tube is evacuated (hence the name vacuum tube). Once that tube and getter gets heated the barium will evaporate inside the tube and settle on the tube glass. When you see that silver spot or similar in the tube, that is what is left after the barium deposits itself on the glass. The purpose of the barium is to complete the vacuum of any gases left in the glass after mechanical evacuation.
In addition to that the barium is there to absorb any stray oxygen given off from the glass enclosure when it gets heated during use. Some tubes will loose the "gettering" (shiny stuff on the glass) over the life of the tube, due to the absorption of the stray oxygen molecules given off by the glass enclosure.

If the stray oxygen molecules were left inside the tube, oxidation of the metal parts inside the tube would occur and shorten the life of the tube. In addition to that, those same stray oxygen molecules would impede the flow of electrons during normal operation causing the tube performance to suffer.

To understand the use of the getter is actually in my opinion the beginning of understanding whats inside a vacuum tube.


Now how the heck can you get electron flow (electricity) from one piece of metal to another with nothing but space between them?

Isn't this tube stuff cool?

Cheers,
Bob
 
Wig wrote:
Now, once we have taken our power from the power transformer secondary windings, we need to turn it from AC (alternating current) to DC (direct current) power. We do this with a rectifier. Rectifiers can be either half-wave or full-wave, meaning that they 'smooth out' half of the AC sine wave (the 'alternating' part of AC power looks like a sine wave) or they smooth out the entire wave. Either way, you end up with DC power, which is what you want for the plate and filaments of the tubes.

You can use a tube or tubes to do the rectification. This tube or tubes would not be part of the amplifier circuit per se, but are rather part of the power circuit, since they do not have the audio portion of the incoming signal passing through them. However, they can impart coloration on the resulting music you hear, so some people design this portion of the amplifier quite carefully, and when you hear people talking about 'tube rolling', they are often talking about experimenting with different types, brands or even instances of various tubes to perform rectification.

Generally, tube rolling isn't restricted to rectifier tubes, if present. Theoretically, rectifier tube variations shouldn't amount to much difference if all is well elsewhere. Tube rolling usually refers to trying different 'flavors' of the same tube types, such as a 12AX7 for example. There are at least dozens of different variations of this one tube type and these variations can lead to different sounding characteristics, not to mention sibling types, such as lower gain 12AT7s, 12AU7s, industrial versions, etc.

You can also use a solid-state rectifier, which means that instead of a vacuum tube, you use either a diode (half-wave) or a set of four diodes (full wave). If you use a full-wave diode rectifier, that is commonly referred to as a 'bridge' rectifier. The rectifier is not simply made up of tubes or diodes, however. Typically, adjustments are required to drop or raise voltage using capacitors and/or resisters, and in the case of tube rectifiers (and sometimes for solid-state rectifiers) a type of transformer known as a 'choke' is used to further smooth out the DC voltage and make it all flat-line and buttery smooth.

Actually, getting a bit more technical here, a full wave rectifier might be as basic as two half wave rect's, or two diodes, which is not a bridge. A full wave bridge would be four. Full wave, whether tube or SS is considerably better in most cases than half wave, due to the improved ease and ability to filter the pulsating DC. Capacitors in PSs are generally used for filtration duties, so they aren't used to adjust voltage much, except maybe in doubler or tripler, etc. circuits. Resistors might be used to drop a given voltage, although in many cases, the power resistor in a PS is there for a low-cost degree of isolation, which improves filtration on the cheap. The better-quality PSs usually feature a choke or two, which is an upgrade over a resistor. For a good time, call...a choke! :thmbsp:


The incoming audio signal first goes to a tube or tubes that are designed to pop up the signal a little bit, with very high precision. The output of those tubes are then routed to the input of the 'output' tubes, which is where the major amplification takes place.You need the pre-amp tubes because the output tubes are designed to amplify the signal that comes in by a certain number of times.

So if a very small signal comes in an gets multiplied by say 100 times, then the output is much lower than if a larger signal comes in and gets multiplied by 100 times. But at the same time, the output tube is designed to work best amplifying a signal that comes within a certain set of parameters. So pre-amp tubes and amplifier tubes are designed to work together in that way. You need them both.

The reverse is actually the norm. The short version is that the low-level tubes increase the input's signal gain (voltage) the most, and most times by exponential amounts; this is followed by the output tubes that are very, very low gain, yet deliver large amounts of current swings which work with the high voltage input signal to produce the output power.

Once the audio signal is routed into the power (output) tubes, it gets amplified and sent out on a different set of pins on the tubes. In a 'single-ended' design, that's it for the amplification. This may result in not much output power, but it may be a more accurate or nicer-sounding amplification (to some, tastes vary widely and there is no one 'right' way). If more power is desired, the output of one set of power tubes can be sent into the input of another pair of input tubes (as long as it is within the design specs of the tubes) and it will be amplified yet again. Thus, a 2 watt output signal might become a 20 watt output signal, which basically means louder volume at the speakers. This is called a 'Push-Pull' amplifier (PP) instead of single-ended (SE). Typically, the tubes used in PP amplifiers are all the same tube number, but I guess it doesn't have to be that way. And yes, you could have a PPP or a PPPP amplifier for even more power, and there are such amplifiers, but the tube types that can handle the larger inputs can be expensive and rare, and distortion increases with each successive amplification.

There are SE amps and PP amps; also SE with more than one tube (in parallel), and PP amps with 2 tubes, plus 2, 4, or more pairs in parallel. The SE is still SE and the PP is still a PP amp regardless of parallel tubes or not. Virtually all tube amps, whether SE or PP require an output transformer; except for rare PP types that are known as "OTL" In any PP amp, the signal is actually split in plus and minus halves which are delivered to two tubes that are configured in 'opposition' so that is the meaning of the term: While one of the two is pushing the signal, the other is pulling and the efficiency is basically doubled by this cooperative, swinging action. The SE amp is sweating big time to try to swing the entire signal on its own, so power output efficiency in terms of amount suffers, although the quality level can be superior for other reasons.

Since there is high voltage required for the tubes, the most practical way to interconnect these is with capacitors, which allow the signal to pass, yet the caps block the high voltage, which would upset the following tubes' rather delicate input, which is usually the grid (yes I know, tubes' inputs can be elements other than the grids in some cases).

I hope this helps to clarify your basically 'sound' understanding and I'm personally pleased that you put your thoughts out here, too.
 
OK, so the basics - the ULTRA basics of tube amplifiers are these...

1) Power Transformer (PT). Turns the AC power into voltages the tubes need.

2) Rectifier. Tube or solid-state. Turns the AC into DC.

3) Choke (optional). A transformer-looking thing that makes the power even more creamy and good.

4) Preamplifier tube(s). Turns the incoming audio signal into a slightly larger audio signal, but does so with good precision.

5) Output or Power tube(s). Turns the audio signal from the pre-amp tubes into a much larger signal, which it may feed directly into the output transformers, or may feed into another stage of amplification (SE or PP).

6) Output transformer(s) (OPT). Turns the output signal from the last stage of amplification into something speakers can use to make sound.

This is a very nice introductory summary. From my own perspective, I am very greatly tempted to add one more item: Global Negative Feedback. It's not used in a few boutique products, but NFB is an overwhelmingly dominant design feature of most power amps. It's not something that stands out in a visual inspection, but it has a huge impact on measured performance and sonic results.
 
I hope this helps to clarify your basically 'sound' understanding and I'm personally pleased that you put your thoughts out here, too.

Thank you! I had been informed by Squidward about the PP tubes, but I must have forgotten it. I appreciate the advice and clarification!
 
This is a very nice introductory summary. From my own perspective, I am very greatly tempted to add one more item: Global Negative Feedback. It's not used in a few boutique products, but NFB is an overwhelmingly dominant design feature of most power amps. It's not something that stands out in a visual inspection, but it has a huge impact on measured performance and sonic results.

I was thinking about NF, but decided to leave it out for a thumbnail description. I also left out UL taps and that sort of thing. I can hardly say I understand them myself, but I wanted to get the bones down and see if anyone could tell me if I was way off or on the right track.
 
Referring to Wigwam's earlier post: Here are a few more conceptual thoughts for you and anyone else who might benefit.

One possible analogy is that you might wish to think of a power amp in terms of an actual engine and transmission in most any typical car. If there was a single cylinder, like a small lawnmower-type motor, you could see how its single piston does all of the work 'alone'. As an aside here, ironically enough, the (European) English term for most any tube is a "valve", which is a fairly accurate description of what most tubes perform electronically. You might even consider the small, front-end input tubes to act somewhat like the valves in an engine's cylinder. Going with this analogy, the output tubes might act as the pistons, since they do the bulk of the 'work', with the required 'help' of the valves, of course and the engine's transmission would be the output transformer.

You might easily see where a two cylinder lawnmower motor might have more power with two pistons working together in most any form, whether thru a V configuration or Posche/early VW 'pancake' style, and these two or more will produce more power than two single-cylinder motors separately combined. That should serve as a reasonable analogy of the efficiency gains realized by PP amps in relation to SE amps; semantics aside as to what ultimately sounds..."best".

Moving to the OPT (output transformer); it acts as a transmission of sorts and is technically more of a torque converter for the output tubes. A car's engine is hardly practical without a suitable transmission and the same would be true for most any tube amp that requires the high voltage, low current output tubes' downconversion to lower voltage, higher current that the OPT enables for the benefit of the spkrs. The output tubes 'like' the particular (high impedance) load that the OPT presents on the primary side. The low impedance secondary windings inductively respond to the signal swings running thru the primary, yet since there are far less windings on the secondary, they present a reduced version of the primary's high voltage signal swings which are now converted and suitable for the low impedance loads that most spkrs present.

Although nothing is 100% efficient, there is a basic proportional formula for transformers and transmissions, so the reduction ratios equate closely to those you might find in a car's engine RPM reductions thru its transmission with the same types of results: same power at a lower speed generally equates to much more torque and vice versa. So there you have it; maybe not a perfect analogy, but enough loosely-based similarities to be worth casual consideration.
 
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Wow, nice!

Thanks Ed and friends. This is most helpful. You guys are the best!

Happy Listening! :beatnik:
 
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