Tube sound

[Sportlark64]

Hey folks , Steve here in Nevada . I've been wanting to go "Tube" for some time . I'm not "Well Healed" so I'm looking at Yaqin's etc. around $ 800-900 . From what I've read here and elsewhere tubes have their own characteristics , but where to start ??? I like my music a bit on the "Cranked" side of life at times . Spirited listening would be a good description as any .
I listen to Blues (more modern) A.B.B. , Johnny Winter , Elvin Bishop , Savoy Brown , Tab Benoit , Tommy Castro (to name a few) .
Classic Rock , Stones , and a plethora of others - Jimi Hendrix , Foghat , OOOOLLLD Journey , UFO , The Who , Humble Pie , Zepplin etc.
What might be a good starting point with those formats ? What tubes should I be looking for ?
I don't want to get "drilled" with Highs , I'd like a definite mid-range (most of my hearing loss is in mid- to mid-highs .
I'm going to build a pair of speakers that were suggested on Steve Hoffman's site . I just finished a pair of 3-ways I call WTF I's . They don't sound bad at all but I really didn't pick drivers that compliment each other .
I intend on using Pyle Pro PA255-8 10" / Pyle Pro PDS182/Goldwood Horns that he suggested in place of the discontinued Pyle PH565 (300 somethings) crossed @ 2K .
Thanks , Steve

 

[4-2-7]

Well maybe two bits of advice, make your speakers highly efficient 98+ db.

Sometimes you just got to grab the bull by the horns and take the ride Steve.

 

[Sportlark64]

Dang !!! That bull is a bit wild and no horns ,,, would those 4 "dangly bits" work ??? ;-) Just so many different tubes and too little cash . But it will happen sooner than later (selling our house and I'm taking about 5k for tools equipment and NEW tunes !!!
I also have my Cave in the garage , very nice and private , my wife hates my music . But "Ees Hokay" . Beer and ,,,,, is on the menu quite often , and no outside interference . I built my office to about 16'x14' , it even has a complimentary tire burn out etched into the floor ! Next "cave will be about 16x20 to hold my stereo , old tube radio's etc. Pasadena , eh ? Born there , lived in Temple City near Arcadia and moved to Nevada in April of 68' . My old man's Gypsy Ways rubbed off , so I've floated about a bit . Burglary ? Had that too but in England . Caught the little turds though and got my stuff back .
I need to get my hands on some tube gear , it's new territory . I may need to rethink the speakers .

 

[Sportlark64]

P.S. , Dan ,,, welcome home ! I missed that situation by 2 years . Not to say they didn't try . I took the ASVAB in 75' the recruiters were at my door before I turned 16 , wanted me to join in the Delayed Enlisted Program and go active right after graduation .
My only regret ,, not joining the Marines .. Another life maybe ...

 

[ScottFan355]

Hi, though I haven’t heard them myself people seem to love the 100wpc Jolida tube integrated amps. Plenty of power to blow out some windows and can be found used for about 1k. My friend had a smaller Jolida and it sounded fantastic.

 

[mjw21a]

Provided your speakers are plenty sensitive, why not take a look at the little single ended Oldchen amps. They're incredible for the money:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....4-single-ended-class-a-tube-amplifier.669021/

My previous primary amp was a Yaqin MC10T (MC13S without a VU meter) with Mundorf ZN caps and Tocos Cosmos volume pot which was a beautiful amp though ultimately lacked the bass and treble extension I wanted being decidedly midrange focussed. It now lives at a mates place and I ordered an Oldchen K3 off AliExpress without its complement of tubes:

http://s.aliexpress.com/A7vMVNRF?fromSns=Copy

After checking with the seller they advised it could handle KT120 power tubes, though not KT150's. I ordered a matched quad of Tung Sol KT120, 2x Shuguang CV181-Z Black Treasures and 1x NOS Melz 6H8C metal base tube (for the centre preamp tube). This amp does everything well from deep bass through beautiful mids tto the highs. Very linear response, though still has that tube magic that I so value.

I'd highly recommend this amp and tube complement as it sounds nothing short of breathtaking. It must be noted that I upgraded the input caps with NOS Russian KY40-9 PIO's, the coupling caps with French made Solen Tinfoils and volume pot with an ALPS Blue. While there was an improvement (in how solid the audio sounds) with the cap and pot upgrade, it wasn't massive and I don't really think it was necessary.

All up I highly recommend that amp over the Yaqin MC10T or MC13S amps. Quite unbeatable for the money.

 

[mjw21a]

Anyways, this was my Yaqin:



My little Single ended Oldchen (custom paint & wood strip's on the side), it's normally just black):



Oldchen K3:

 

[Sportlark64]

Love it !!!! And "all-in" under $ 600.00 ! I'm slobbering here ! I will eventually find the right speakers . My stumble at this point is , if I build my speakers , finding "affordable" 10" woofers at 98db. is being a bit difficult . My horn drivers are 108db. @ 1 watt and are mid-highs .

 

[mjw21a]

Love it !!!! And "all-in" under $ 600.00 ! I'm slobbering here ! I will eventually find the right speakers . My stumble at this point is , if I build my speakers , finding "affordable" 10" woofers at 98db. is being a bit difficult . My horn drivers are 108db. @ 1 watt and are mid-highs .

Heck, the little 10WPC Oldchen SEP amp gets plenty of volume paired with the 96.5db Dayton USA PS220-8 drivers I have in these vintage cabinets. They will triode strap the amp at the factory if you request it too though you'd sacrifice some power to do so




The Oldchen K3 I have paired with 89db Aurum Cantus F620 speakers. The Aurum Cantus speakers are known to be very tube amp friendly so easy to drive with either the Oldchen K3 or Yaqin MC10T / MC13S. They'd be more than you want to spend I think though it's not hard finding 89db efficient speakers.

A mate is running some Sony SS-F9000 speakers that I originally picked up from $180 with my old Yaqin MC10T. No shortage of volume and a fantastic match.

Generally speaking 89db efficient speakers are sufficient for 45WPC valve amps

 

[432HzBob]

Tubes love horns. My little 15 watt Scott drives JBL's ok but not to Zepplin volumes.
I crank tunes all the time too, 100+db, especially the UFO and Ozzy type stuff and would never want to destroy my tube amp on it.
However, for modest listening on efficient speakers, nothing beats the sweet mids and crisp highs tubes offer. Also, it's enjoyable rolling tubes through to hear what sounds best to you.
Want to blast Crazy Train off of Ozzy Tribute? (like I do) you might want to at least bi-amp and drive the woofers with a hefty solid state unit.
That's my experience anyway since I've never yet owned an actual powerful tube amp that wants to be ridden hard.

 

[mjw21a]

Full rangers are pretty hard to beat too. The most cohesive sound you'll ever experience

 

[judsonw]

Do not be afraid of used stuff either. I got my Antique Sound Lab aq-1003dt from a friend, used for $450. It is 30 wpc and it is pictured in my profile picture (small image, I know...). I generally only have the volume at 9 o'clock and it is sufficient with my Hsu research HB-1s (There are times I want to go louder, but my housemate works night shift so he sleeps during the day and we live in an apartment complex... I woke him up once by accident with the music and felt bad about it).

 

[Sportlark64]

Thanks very much !!
Now ,,,,,, I tried going up on U.S. Customs to try to find Duty Fee's ,,, it's a bunch of Gobbly-Gook !
Can anyone hear suggest a vendor stateside , Canada (duty fees from Canada ?) . I like what I see on the Old Chen's , cost too ! With the Yaqin's I'd be in well over a "grand" by the time I find a good tube phono pre-amp . Dayton Audio PA255-8 10" Pro Woofer is nearly 93 db. and according to www.Stevehoffman.tv has very good specs and paired with my Pyle Pro PDS182 and a Goldwood Horn #xx300 and crossed between 1800-2000 (htz Khtz ?) Is a great 2-way combination . There has been some interesting finds on C.L. locally recently . But since I can't lay out the Benjamins now , it's like my old man used to say "Wish in one hand ,,, S%$# in the other and see which one fills up faster" ,,, yeah he was a "Sage" alright A smart a$$ , but he was wise . I never tried his advice , I figured he was much wiser than me , so I took that little kernel of wisdom at face value .

 

[Sportlark64]

Judsonw , Bellingham eh ? Cool !!! We lived at Birch Bay in 69' (used to ride my bike to the marina just about daily ) If you Google it our pre-fab log cabin was less than a mile south from Point Whitehorn and backed up to that nature preserve and was 100' away from the cliff . I used to love watching the Trawlers head out at night . The old man worked at "Intalco" and when he was off we'd head down to the beach and gather crabs for a fresh crab salad or boiled crab . That is where I REALLY started digging rock music so much that I tried to run away to go to Woodstock . Mind you I was 9 and my geography was a bit limited , didn't know where it was , but I just wanted to go .

 

[Sportlark64]

Tubes love horns. My little 15 watt Scott drives JBL's ok but not to Zepplin volumes.
I crank tunes all the time too, 100+db, especially the UFO and Ozzy type stuff and would never want to destroy my tube amp on it.
However, for modest listening on efficient speakers, nothing beats the sweet mids and crisp highs tubes offer. Also, it's enjoyable rolling tubes through to hear what sounds best to you.
Want to blast Crazy Train off of Ozzy Tribute? (like I do) you might want to at least bi-amp and drive the woofers with a hefty solid state unit.
That's my experience anyway since I've never yet owned an actual powerful tube amp that wants to be ridden hard.

Oh yeah !!! UFO and Rush's early stuff cranked so loud the little forest creatures hold their ears and shout "WTF IS THAAAAAT NOISE " Yep , Chaos and Mass Hysteria ...........................

 

[mjw21a]

Probably the best value tube phono stage for the money is the Douk Tube Phonobox, which is a EAR 834P copy. They use a larger power supply than the real thing so it can actually do bass better than the real thing. Tube rolling is necessary to get the best from it though

 

[mkane]

D Class offers tube sound for a heck of a lot less

 

[mjw21a]

Interesting, I've never found any class D amp I've tried to be tube like inclusive some Red Wine Audio mono blocks I tried for a bit (battery powered tripath amps)..... Admittedly they can sound very nice and have superior resolution to tubes though the magic is missing. I still have 3 S.M.S.L amps in use around the house though.

Having said that a Starting Point Systems DAC3 sounds absolutely phenomenal with a cheap little class D amp. I've not tried it with my tube amps yet.

I've also a Chinese made JLH 1969 Hood amp on order which is a simple class A amp that is supposed to sound very tube like. I'm quite interested in trying this one. It's more of an experiment than anything. I've high expectations of it.

 

[slimecity]

I'm running a 10-watt pc tube amplifier (ECL86) thru 88 db speakers - I know on paper this isnt going to get you much sound, but its plenty for my mid-sized room.

I think you just need to "roll" your gear sometimes too - try an amp on your speakers and just see how it sounds.

 

[darkblue94]

Rush's early stuff cranked so loud the little forest creatures hold their ears and shout "WTF IS THAAAAAT NOISE "

There is trouble in the forest and the creatures all have fled...