Tubes for C2500

[ghost rider]

I'm thinking of trying possibly some vintage Mullards or Telefunken tubes. I rolled in Gold lions I thought were 12au7s but as I look at the stock tubes I removed they were 12ax7a's. Which brings me to my question how specific do I have to be? There are 12au7 and 12ax7 as well as ecc83 and ecc82 I just to make sure I get the correct on.

 

[Pio1980]

Use the specified types.

 

[ghost rider]

So that would be 12AX7 ECC83?

I may try a set of 4 "Fisher Quad by Telefunken" from 1964 anyone ever tried them?

 

[mdewire]

I have tried both Gold Lion 12AX7 ECC83 and PSVane 12AX7 TII. I wound up going back to the stock tubes over time as the Gold Lions developed a soft sound over time and the PSVanes started to sound harsh over time. That has been my experience with tube rolling the C2500.

 

[ghost rider]

That's interesting . I am using Gold lions now. It still sounds good but you never know it may have changed ever so slightly.
I know I had read that with the c2500 you may not need to try to do better than the stock tubes because you won't gain that much. I just wanted to see if anyone else has tried any vintage tubes Or new ones that made improvements.

 

[onedrop78]

You can try 12ax7/ECC83 or 5751. They say not to use the 5751 in the phono stage (messes with the RIAA eq?) although I cannot comment on what effect it would have on that pre-amp. I rolled a bunch in my C2300 when I got it about 8 years ago or so. I have Telefunkens in the phono stage and Raytheon 12ax7A black plate in the line (also tried 5751 RCAs which were nice). I haven't fussed with them since. Guess the upside to Telefunken is you can put thousands of hours on them and they can be really quiet. Seems the newer tubes are getting better though. If you try them, post your experience.

 

[ghost rider]

Well the one I was talking about are still there. I would buy them but the seller does not offer a return. I doubt I could expect therm to be matching or how much life may be left. How consistent are these vintage tubes? If someone posts about a specific tube say the Fisher Telefunken so I find some are the odds good that the ones I find will also be good? Or is there a bit of luck involved?

I only use the MC phono stage and the line outs I also make needle drops you would think improvements would be heard in the drops.

 

[ghost rider]

I must be getting old there is a set of 4 vintage bugle boys on eBay that were made in 1997.

 

[cduarte]

my brother in law just picked up a C2500, and what sounded best to us was rca black plate 12ax7s. Next best were sovtek 12ax7lps, followed by the cheapest shuguang 12ax7s. Following those were telefunken ribbed plate, EI, matsushita, etc

 

[ghost rider]

Thanks f

my brother in law just picked up a C2500, and what sounded best to us was rca black plate 12ax7s. Next best were sovtek 12ax7lps, followed by the cheapest shuguang 12ax7s. Following those were telefunken ribbed plate, EI, matsushita, etc

Thanks for the suggestions were those new or vintage ?

I appreciate suggestions for reputable vendors too. 1997 is not my idea of vintage.

 

[cduarte]

Thanks f

Thanks for the suggestions were those new or vintage ?

I appreciate suggestions for reputable vendors too. 1997 is not my idea of vintage.

RCAs were 1950s, iirc mid 50s, telefunkens were 1960s, matushitas were mid 60s as well, rest were made within the last 10 years so basically current production. The RCA blackplates were just head and shoulders better than anything else, including the telefunkens everyone raves about. We also tested 1960s mullards, they were horrible, muddy and dark. Bryce Youngman is the man for vintage tubes on bartertown, greengirl613 on ebay has great tubes too, well matched and she stands by what she sells. For new production tubes, I'd go with Jim McShane. For new production tubes, I also wouldn't bother with anything but the sovtek 12ax7lps, they bested the new issue mullards and genalex gold lion 12ax7s and for $12 or so each, are a bargain.

 

[ghost rider]

RCAs were 1950s, iirc mid 50s, telefunkens were 1960s, matushitas were mid 60s as well, rest were made within the last 10 years so basically current production. The RCA blackplates were just head and shoulders better than anything else, including the telefunkens everyone raves about. We also tested 1960s mullards, they were horrible, muddy and dark. Bryce Youngman is the man for vintage tubes on bartertown, greengirl613 on ebay has great tubes too, well matched and she stands by what she sells. For new production tubes, I'd go with Jim McShane. For new production tubes, I also wouldn't bother with anything but the sovtek 12ax7lps, they bested the new issue mullards and genalex gold lion 12ax7s and for $12 or so each, are a bargain.

Thanks again very good info. I'm going to follow up with Bryce on the RCA's. How did you guys test all those tubes, did you buy all of them?

 

[ghost rider]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1960s-MATCHED-Set-of-4-RCA-12AX7A-ECC83-Stereo-Guitar-Amp-Tubes-NOS-NIB-/3LrMAAOSwbwlXCeNl
these worth thinking about?

Even better
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-ECC83-12A...747208?hash=item2eedd66848:g:LrMAAOSwbwlXCeNl

These vendors look better.

Also did you find any that worked better in the MC phono stage ?

 

[cduarte]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-196...Stereo-Guitar-Amp-Tubes-NOS-NIB-/381599801653

Are these worth thinking about?

those appear to be greyplates, I'd pass.

 

[cduarte]

Thanks again very good info. I'm going to follow up with Bryce on the RCA's. How did you guys test all those tubes, did you buy all of them?

I had them in my stash

 

[ghost rider]

I had them in my stash

Check out the other link they are black plates and the price is right and returnable.

 

[ghost rider]

I ordered them. They are long black plates from 1958 so may or may not be the ones you have.

I figured what the hell they are cheap and look like they are closely matched .

I find it a little interesting that in your experience the c2500 works best with possibly cheaper vintage tubes.

I think I will like this vendor and several of the eBay vendors I saw yesterday are very promising. They all had return options and an explanation on how they were tested along with numbers.

 

[cduarte]

I think you'll be happy with what you ordered. As far as the phono section goes, I'd get a nice matched pair of sovtek 12ax7lps from Jim McShane and not look back, they're a great sounding tube and have spiral wound filaments which makes them extremely quiet.. Bear in mind that this is highly subjective and is my opinion only and worth what you paid for it.

The amazing thing about the C2500 to me is the ability to sound extremely good with either the cheapest new production tubes available and even wornout mismatched tubes. The only tubes I really hated in it were 1960s mullards, everything else was quite good. It's just that the RCA black plates were so much better. What my brother in law is going to be trying soon are getting every variant of black plate 12ax7 he can find, including raytheon and sylvania. I'm betting that those will be great as well.

 

[ghost rider]

I think you'll be happy with what you ordered. As far as the phono section goes, I'd get a nice matched pair of sovtek 12ax7lps from Jim McShane and not look back, they're a great sounding tube and have spiral wound filaments which makes them extremely quiet.. Bear in mind that this is highly subjective and is my opinion only and worth what you paid for it.

The amazing thing about the C2500 to me is the ability to sound extremely good with either the cheapest new production tubes available and even wornout mismatched tubes. The only tubes I really hated in it were 1960s mullards, everything else was quite good. It's just that the RCA black plates were so much better. What my brother in law is going to be trying soon are getting every variant of black plate 12ax7 he can find, including raytheon and sylvania. I'm betting that those will be great as well.

I followed up with Jim and plan to get the sovtek's. I appreciate all your help and I get it that this is all subjective. It's not like you were steering me to tubes that cost $200 each.

The guy I got the RCAs from explained more about the black plates. He said it is the best of the USA made tubes of the time and are mostly used by guitar players the only draw back is the can become noisy less of a problem for guitar amps. He tested mine and all are currently quiet.
I'm going to cut a hole in the shelf above my c2500 so I can more easily swap the tubes in the future.

 

[analog addict]

Another tube you may want to consider is the 7025, a low noise 12AX7 variant specifically engineered for phono sections. You might also want to keep your eyes open for other black plate variants. I prefer the Raytheon over the RCAs, at least in my phono pre amp.