Turntable not turning (even with assist.) in Grundig hifi

[ilyadelphia]

Hi everyone. I am new here - was pointed here by reddit's vinyl sub in regards to an issue I am having with my Grundig hifi.

I was under the impression it was a 50s piece but after being corrected on Antique Radio forums, I've learned its a 60s. We have a gorgeous grundig hifi that we picked up on CL about a year ago. The turntable was barely turning at the time, but has not been turning for quite sometime. It sounds great, aside from the record player not working. The unit gets power and the needle is responsive. The turntable inside is an automatic 36. Someone suggested this was a solid state - so if I am posting in the wrong sub, please feel free to move it.

I did not want to replace it with something else but I have been hearing that it might be my best solution, as that player is not a great one (not worth fixing).

No one in my area (chicago) is doing house calls for this big system. I wish I knew someone. Here are some photos to help. Any information and tips are helpful! Thank you!

Here are some photos. I have all of the parts - just was taking it apart.

EDIT: I have auto mechanic background but otherwise I'm a graphic designer/creative so this is pretty out of my skill range.

 

[tubewade]

Do you mean you cannot turn it by hand or simply that the motor in the unit does not turn it? If it won't turn by hand I would believe that the grease on the sleeve bearing has transformed into glue. This happens a lot on old turntables. Take the spindle out, take the snap ring off, use a soldering iron to apply heat to the metal part in the centre that the platter fits over. Be careful! Rock the platter back and forth until it comes free and lift it off.

If it will turn by hand bypass the heat step and just remove the platter. There you will be able to see if the motor is spinning and if the idler wheel is moving into contact with the motor and platter and/or if the idler wheel has hardened and lost its ability to grip.

 

[bobaloniny]

You are in the right spot, don't worry.
I am not sure if its an idler drive or a belt drive. I am going to assume idler, but in any case you would have to remove the platter to see whats happening. You would remove the spindle, and see if there is some kind of retainer (circlip, eclip) that would prevent you from lifting the platter straight up and off. It may be slightly stubborn so a gentle tap while pulling up should release it.
If its an idler there is a rubber wheel that xfers motion from the motor to the rim of the platter, that should be rubbery, not hardened up and dried out. I would then see if the motor even runs, or has enough torque to spin the platter.
If its a belt (I dont think so) then the rubber belt is shot or melted into puddles of goo, or, the motor isnt spinning.
At any rate...the tt will have to come out so its easier to service, the old grease is hardened up to wax and the oil is probably gone. Might not be so bad, but normally gunked grease is what keeps older automatics from properly doing their thing.

 

[Rybeam]

Bottom of the line BSR with fance buttons I believe, idler drive.

 

[ilyadelphia]

Do you mean you cannot turn it by hand or simply that the motor in the unit does not turn it? If it won't turn by hand I would believe that the grease on the sleeve bearing has transformed into glue. This happens a lot on old turntables. Take the spindle out, take the snap ring off, use a soldering iron to apply heat to the metal part in the centre that the platter fits over. Be careful! Rock the platter back and forth until it comes free and lift it off.

If it will turn by hand bypass the heat step and just remove the platter. There you will be able to see if the motor is spinning and if the idler wheel is moving into contact with the motor and platter and/or if the idler wheel has hardened and lost its ability to grip.

I can turn it by hand - I'll have a go at the platter and see whats going on underneath in the next few days.

It should be an idler drive, not belt. Talked to someone today and he offered to rebuild it, costing about $500 or so. He offered to also put in a vintage dual exchange (after rebuild) instead as an option. Not sure where to go with this, as I would not like to spend TOO much money, unless it is really necessary. He told me that these phillips changers are kinda crappy and the cartridge isn't the best for handling records.

 

[revox-b77]

500 for a rebuild sounds pretty steep to me. Installing a better table sounds like a good idea though.

 

[stereofisher]

Try fixing it yourself first

That's a cool setup. Always loved the look of Grundig sets. Been a stickler for keeping it original, if possible. Your repair guy is a bit steep. The turntable in it likely has a frozen motor. Basically, those old motors were simple. Come apart easy, clean and oil and that should take care of the motor. The turntable probably has an idler wheel. It may not be free. Old grease. While inside, check the gear or gears that run the automatic. Clean out the old grease and regrease. This could slow it down or stop it. It could be stuck in mid cycle causing it not to move. Last, the idler wheel could be slipping, or the rubber is as hard as a rock. No movement. Those wheels cane be rebuilt. Terry Dewick here on AK?

My first attempt would be to try and save the original turntable. It likely has a ceramic cartridge though. Not always the best for records. A Dual would be a good replacement if you go the replacement route. The possible problem is the Dual likely will have a magnetic cartridge. You we need a preamp. An inexpensive preamps are available at Vintageelectrics.net for $24.99. Used them with good results. A good fit would be a Dual 1009SK. It would keep it somewhat original as they were built in the mid 60s. This Dual has cue and anti skate. The earlier 1009 without initials lacked anti skate or cue. But it's a great sounding table. Built in 1964.

Years ago I worked for a guy who put new turntables in consoles. I did some myself too. It's not to hard to convert old to new. Good luck, drop a line if you need help.

Eric

 

[KentTeffeteller]

This Philips is a very small chassis changer. May be difficult to find a Dual which will fit in this cabinet space. And this is a 1967-1969 era console. One of the smaller cheaper Duals contemporary to the Philips is likely easier to find room to fit. Grundig in this era began fitting the Philips changers as Perpetuum-Ebner had ceased manufacturing the old Rex changers. Also, a Garrard Autoslim might be another potential alternative changer,

 

[Beobloke]

Bottom of the line BSR with fance buttons I believe, idler drive.

It's actually a Philips. Quite a decent unit and well worth servicing and saving IMHO.

 

[ilyadelphia]

Sorry I dropped off the earth for a bit!

I haven't been able to find anyone outside of the one guy who wants to charge me ~500 to service it. Sucks, but, I personally don't feel comfortable having a go at it unless I've got a step-by-step or someone shadowing me. I'm paranoid I will ruin it forever, and I also don't just have $500 to shell out on something that "may not work".

I'm wondering if I should replace it with something new via crutchfield or if I should stick to fixing this. Mind you, fixing it is either going to be me attempting to do it or spending a lot of money. I have some free time the next two weeks so I'd like to make a decision, and get this over with.

Many thanks for all of your replies.

 

[Jim Snediker]

Hi everyone. I am new here - was pointed here by reddit's vinyl sub in regards to an issue I am having with my Grundig hifi.

I was under the impression it was a 50s piece but after being corrected on Antique Radio forums, I've learned its a 60s. We have a gorgeous grundig hifi that we picked up on CL about a year ago. The turntable was barely turning at the time, but has not been turning for quite sometime. It sounds great, aside from the record player not working. The unit gets power and the needle is responsive. The turntable inside is an automatic 36. Someone suggested this was a solid state - so if I am posting in the wrong sub, please feel free to move it.

I did not want to replace it with something else but I have been hearing that it might be my best solution, as that player is not a great one (not worth fixing).

No one in my area (chicago) is doing house calls for this big system. I wish I knew someone. Here are some photos to help. Any information and tips are helpful! Thank you!

Here are some photos. I have all of the parts - just was taking it apart.

EDIT: I have auto mechanic background but otherwise I'm a graphic designer/creative so this is pretty out of my skill range.

 

[Jim Snediker]

Hi - I realize this is 5 years late, but did you ever find a resolution to this? I'm also in Chicago and just picked up a similar piece. Having what seems to be a similar issue too. Trying to figure this out! - Jim

 

[vwestlife]

Hi - I realize this is 5 years late, but did you ever find a resolution to this?

Did you follow the suggestions that have been posted in this thread?

 

[Jim Snediker]

Sorry, it was late and I should have been more specific. My issue is with the arm not moving and dropping properly. (I have video of the example). So, I do not have the same issue as Ilyadelphia. I was more curious if he found anyone to work on it for him, as my only option right now is a shop wanting me to remove the record player from the cabinet and bring just that in - but even that I'm not totally comfortable/confident doing. I can't find a tutorial online of how to do it, and I'm very concerned with breaking something. This piece is old and definitely feels quite fragile!