Turntable to tape or turntable to hard drive to tape?

[MichaeI]

I am not quite sure where to post this question. Does transferring music to a hard drive ruin the analogue sound? I like the idea of having a master on my PC, but not sure if converting everything to 1s and 0s and back (to cassettes) defeats the purpose. I would like to have my music portable and analogue. The convenience that recording to PC has is definitely appealing, so I would like to vet that route, but I am also fine with recording straight to tape. I can't find an answer to my specific question, and I want to make sure before I continue down the path that I am headed.Thanks.

 

[E-Stat]

You will likely get a range of answers, but I find that capturing vinyl at 24/96 is sonically equivalent in my system.

Why cassettes today?

 

[JoeESP9]

Recording vinyl as "master" FLAC files on an HDD results in more flexibility later on.

 

[Ronald1973]

I prefer the convenience of having it on the computer, especially if I'm going to make a mix tape.

 

[onplane]

I am not quite sure where to post this question. Does transferring music to a hard drive ruin the analogue sound? I like the idea of having a master on my PC, but not sure if converting everything to 1s and 0s and back (to cassettes) defeats the purpose. I would like to have my music portable and analogue. The convenience that recording to PC has is definitely appealing, so I would like to vet that route, but I am also fine with recording straight to tape. I can't find an answer to my specific question, and I want to make sure before I continue down the path that I am headed.Thanks.

You are "over thinking" this. Get some Y's and record both ways at the same time.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[maxhifi]

In this case, what's the sense in recording to cassette at all?

VINYL LP (analog) ---> ADC ---> Hard Drive ----> DAC ----> Cassette recorder ----> Cassette ----> Cassette playback ---> Headphones

Each step in the chain introduces distortion of some sort, so the goal should be to make the chain as short as possible. In the above sequence, if you insert headphones just after DAC, it cannot possibly sound worse, than once it's gone through the tape recorder, because this is what's being recorded!

On the other hand, if you go straight from LP to Cassette Recorder, then you eliminate whatever the ADC/hard drive/DAC do to the sound.

When I make tapes, I definitely don't involve a computer... try it with Dolby NR off, peaks just barely over 0 on the VU meters, don't try and make it too hot. Also, make sure to use good quality cassettes.. anyone still making them? I used to like Sony tapes a lot.

 

[MichaeI]

You are "over thinking" this. Get some Y's and record both ways at the same time.

I will definitely consider that. I suppose recording to PC should be done, regardless, for the sake of convenience, and, as another poster said, "Flexibility."

Why cassettes today?

That was mainly the way I listened to music when I was a kid. First bought tape was Metallica - Master of Puppets.

When I make tapes, I definitely don't involve a computer... try it with Dolby NR off, peaks just barely over 0 on the VU meters, don't try and make it too hot. Also, make sure to use good quality cassettes.. anyone still making them? I used to like Sony tapes a lot.

I never knew what Dolby was when I was a kid. Since returning to records and cassettes, I have found Dolby to be useless--to my ears, anyway. I can listen right through the noise of cassettes. I have found some brand new TDK (D60, SA-X90) and Maxell (UR60, XLII 90) cassettes for 35 cents each at the thrift store, so I will start experimenting with direct to cassette vs digitising first.

After researching why it is that many people prefer analogue over digital, I cannot un-hear their point, and, since rediscovering records and cassettes, I agree with them: digital sounds sterile and void of a life. A couple of months ago is when I was bit by the audio bug. Since then, I have collected a lot of equipment and media, and it seems like every time I listen to a new piece of music, I have an "Oh my God" moment and can't believe that recorded music could sound that good. Even some of the mangled and dingy prerecorded cassettes that I found at the thrift store sound so much more real. I suppose that the clarity and convenience of CDs caused me not to care.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Dolby is not useless if your machine is set up and aligned right. Many cassette decks are not.

 

[ferninando]

for tape only best is TT to tape. pure analog . best sound. IMO

 

[JoeESP9]

Dolby is not useless if your machine is set up and aligned right. Many cassette decks are not.

This is IMO true.

IME many of the complaints about Dolby were because it was used improperly. It's an encode/decode system (many seem to not know/understand this) and is quite sensitive to record levels that are too high. If you keep recording level peaks below +3dB and use Dolby for recording and playback the benefits are easily audible.

 

[ferninando]

dolby works when used correctly as designed.
its the users that dont work. Always is. IMO

 

[maxhifi]

I suggested to keep Dolby off, because at this stage in the game al the equipment is 25 - 45 years old, and likely not working as it did when its new. And when it was new, a lot of it didn't work right either. For Dolby B to work right, the deck has to be working perfectly, otherwise it will dull the highs. Remember "tape trading", those guys always kept Dolby off... trading a better shot at having high frequencies for a little hiss is a winning deal for me.

 

[twiiii]

I'm not fond of cassette tape as a format though I have owned 3 nakamichi's and still have one. Even with Dolby S the format is a big compromise. But if that s your choice so be it. In analog days as long as the intermediate limiter compressor or EQ combined had a total of 6 to 10 db more dynamic range, 1/5 the distortion, and varied the overall response less than 1 db you would never perceive the changes though they were there. As far as digital, Ampex use to say 5 times the higher freq sampling rate, 96 k does that, and with the 10 db dynamic range require meant which 24 bit certainly does and with low timing errors you should be very happy. The given inbread sound of the cassette player should mask the digital processing easily.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Does transferring music to a hard drive ruin the analogue sound?

No. Done properly, copying analog audio to a lossless digital format ensures that every subsequent copy will be exactly as good as the original copy. Done with reasonable quality gear and a high-resolution lossless format, a digital copy of analog audio is the best possible quality you can achieve of any available recording medium.

Analog copying will always have some degradation. There's even degradation every time you play a vinyl record or a tape, though with good equipment the degradation is nearly insignificant. However, you can copy a digital file from one digital device to another -- hundreds of millions of times, billions of times, whatever number of times -- and if the system is working (if it isn't, the file won't copy at all) there will be no degradation, ever. It will always be identical to the original digital copy.

 

[Djcoolray]

Tape is pretty simple as long as you analyze the sources of noise in your system. The higher the THD of an amplifier, the lower the Signal to Noise Ratio the worse the recording because that head in the cassette player/recorder is going to pick up everything. The transference of signal with the addition of circuitry noise and distortion levels depends on the quality of the tape as in Chrome is the best to use. But again, the condition of the signal, the amount of tonal quality being dynamic range will determine how much detail you have in a cassette recording. Thinking that a person has great sound while enjoying vinyl with a set of speakers has nothing to do with how that same signal is reproduced while listening from a tape that's been recorded from the same system.

I recorded tape that sounds exactly like the source with out the destruction of the analog sound, in fact, I've recorded from CD to Chrome tape resulting in a less digital sound.

 

[131east23]

cassettes are cool...

 

[wills13]

I do a fair amount of digitising LP's to my Laptop saving the Files either as FLAC or WAVE 24 / 96 I store them on 2.5" External hard drive when listening I stream WiFi with Logitech Sqeezebox Touch playing through the Yamaha Tuner to my Stereo Speakers including a 12 " Jamo Sub Woofer. I have over 30,000 Tracks stored on my 1TB external and I have the option to play uninterrupted through them.
Personally I can not see why anyone would use Tape, I still have from the old days a Akai Reel to Reel, and a twin deck Onkio Casset player, I would not dream of using them anymore.
But then that is just me, Don't get me wrong I do love old stuff the speakers that I use to listen to LP's before digitising are a pair of Schaub Lorenz 3 way speakers that I bought over 40 years ago and they still sound fantastic.
wills13

 

[BobbyBluz]

I go from turntable to 96k or 192k 24-bit .wav in Sound Forge Pro 11.0, fix everything that needs fixing plus separate into tracks then send to whatever I'm using for the project (RTR, CD, cassette, USB flash drive. If you know what you're doing and have the right equipment the final digital .wav file will sound better than the original vinyl on studio gear.

 

[wills13]

Yes I do use Sound Forge as well, but I only have V.10 it does include iZotope Audio Enhancer. What would be the major differences between the 10 and 11 that you have.

 

[Nightwisher]

Recording to digital doesn't degrade sound quality. It's as neutral a format as you can use, provided you don't degrade the quality by using lossy compression. Tape is not so neutral because of its limitations (although it will sound excellent with good tape and a quality deck). Dave already covered this well.

I record my vinyl and tapes to digital using Audacity. Free and very easy to use (there are some good threads on how to use it if you need help). My vinyl still sounds like vinyl and my tapes still sound like tapes; I just don't have to spin either when playing the recordings and they reside in the same place as all my other music files, making for much convenience.