Upgrade From Separates To Integrated Amp... Long Post

When we last spoke about 48 hours ago, the seller and I were only $100 apart. He asked for a day to consider and I gave him two. He said he'd call. He hasn't, I haven't. Seems I found his bottom price, and he found my top. He did well because I had let him know three (or was it four?) times that I would not be buying, so he dragged me almost all the way to a sale. I am both relieved and disappointed. Just about equally. Ambivalence prevailed.
 
When we last spoke about 48 hours ago, the seller and I were only $100 apart. He asked for a day to consider and I gave him two. He said he'd call. He hasn't, I haven't. Seems I found his bottom price, and he found my top. He did well because I had let him know three (or was it four?) times that I would not be buying, so he dragged me almost all the way to a sale. I am both relieved and disappointed. Just about equally. Ambivalence prevailed.

Over a $100 when we are discussing a $12K amp? Probably babied like a vintage Jaguar XKE. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face. Wow. Truth is I would haven't sold it to you either if you were trying to grind another $100 off the price. Especially if the price was fair to start with.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Over a $100 when we are discussing a $12K amp? Probably babied like a vintage Jaguar XKE. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face. Wow. Truth is I would haven't sold it to you either if you were trying to grind another $100 off the price. Especially if the price was fair to start with.

Regards
Mister Pig

I wasn't trying to grind him down. He ground me up! He kept calling back after I'd told him I had decided to wait a few months, which was within minutes of my initiating contact and his reply. Called me at 0630AM one morning, unexpectedly - I'd thought we were done. He wanted to put a deal together, and I finally (after several more calls when I still thought after each that we were done) agreed with an offer - my first and final. He indicated, though did not state, that we were that close and asked for a day to consider. I told him my offer was good for two. He was friendly, so was I. I don't see where I was grinding.
 
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I wasn't trying to grind him down. He ground me up! He kept calling back after I'd told him I had decided to wait a few months, which was within minutes of my initiating contact and his reply. Called me at 0630AM one morning, unexpectedly - I'd thought we were done. He wanted to put a deal together, and I finally (after several more calls when I still thought after each that we were done) agreed with an offer - my first and final. He indicated, though did not state, that we were that close and asked for a day to consider. I told him my offer was good for two. He was friendly, so was I. I don't see where I was grinding.
If he came within a $100 of where I wanted to be I would say done and make payment. Close enough for government work. I wouldn't keep that from being an impediment for a purchase. If it was $300 or $500 then it's a different story. If he got that close I would be buying. Sorry for the tone, but your post left out the timing of negotiations.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
If he came within a $100 of where I wanted to be I would say done and make payment. Close enough for government work. I wouldn't keep that from being an impediment for a purchase. If it was $300 or $500 then it's a different story. If he got that close I would be buying. Sorry for the tone, but your post left out the timing of negotiations.

Regards
Mister Pig


Really, his pushiness put me off - made me nervous - he seemed too eager, and when he said we'd be great friends for life... my BS-ometer got triggered, and that's why I did not immediately jump when I found he'd likely (or might) agree to another hundred. And I hate to write that, because he seems very nice and has good feedback, but is very persistent. A good trait, but too many such disingenuous remarks skeert me off. Know what I mean?
 
Always trust your BS-ometer!

Maybe not. Caused me to pause, then reverse. Perhaps Mister Pig and others here would ignore awkward remarks and just do the straight math: amp I want + price I want + good seller feedback = hit the buy button, and they'd probably have a very nice amp. And probably that's what I should have done, but I didn't. Could be cultural differences, too... fast-talking yank and deep-south drawler.


Yes, I've considered Bryston, too.
 
Maybe not. Caused me to pause, then reverse. Perhaps Mister Pig and others here would ignore awkward remarks and just do the straight math: amp I want + price I want + good seller feedback = hit the buy button, and they'd probably have a very nice amp. And probably that's what I should have done, but I didn't. Could be cultural differences, too... fast-talking yank and deep-south drawler.


Yes, I've considered Bryston, too.
There's always another deal, no biggie.
 
My dear old Ma sold real estate for a couple hundred years, and the only time I ever saw her get really upset was when a deal was within 400 or 500 dollars, and tempers were indicating it was stopping there. The agent(s) always knew who was going to end up making up the difference.

But, I'll bet OP's deal isn't over just yet...
 
I've seen that kind of thing happen before, could be that the seller said to himself ( Or his significant other ... yikes! ) "$XXXX and no less ", then had talked to a dozen potential buyers before @musichal and every one of them low balled him heavily. Then he gets so close but still the deal won't close.

I've followed this rule, know what I can afford to pay and know what I am comfortable paying ( Note : not always the same. ) then be willing to stop if the price won't work out to meet those requirements. I think @musichal will likely be happier if he just sits tight for a few months then revisits his quest for a new integrated.

Mark Gosdin
 
Really, his pushiness put me off - made me nervous - he seemed too eager, and when he said we'd be great friends for life... my BS-ometer got triggered, and that's why I did not immediately jump when I found he'd likely (or might) agree to another hundred. And I hate to write that, because he seems very nice and has good feedback, but is very persistent. A good trait, but too many such disingenuous remarks skeert me off. Know what I mean?
Found the ad, and sort of remember that seller from a previous item I was considering. He does have a good reputation. But he does not take PayPal. So I would be very uncomfortable sending someone 5 or 6 large with no protection. I would have to have an AK friend pick it up and and verify it's operation.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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Found the as, and sort of remember that seller from a previous item I was considering. He does have a good reputation. But he does not take PayPal. So I would be very uncomfortable sending someone 5 or 6 large with no protection. I would have to have an AK friend pick it up and and verify it's operation.

Regards
Mister Pig

Yes, I even considered asking if any AKers in his area would do that, but it seemed like a lot to ask. And when I considered offering that extra hundred, I knew we were going to need to discuss another way of paying - and the way his ad is worded, I wasn't certain at all that he'd be amenable to that. His feedback is so good that I was tempted, but it's a lot of money with which to trust a stranger on the net. Oh, well, moving on...

Shopping for a good integrated amp has really required me to think out where I want to go with my system, my goals:

better SQ
higher WAF re: using the system
better construction quality of amp system
a compatible home network, so I can
eliminate the clunk - my three 400-disc Sony players

So I was looking at integrated amps that will accommodate my current needs - while I should be giving more consideration to my needs in the near future. Things I don't need:

HT bypass - a non-issue for me
RIAA input - another non-issue

So I want a digital-source based system, but also want at least two unbal analog inputs for a Sony XDR-F1HD am/fm tuner and a spare for whatever. Maybe I'll plug my Integra cassette deck in just for anachronistic fun, since I'll have all this space from eliminating the CD players (huge beasts x three).

It seems as though almost all the components of this type updated configuration benefit greatly via the use of smart-phones or tablets, and I have been bragging for years about the fact that we only use a land-line phone, so it would seem a tablet is preferable for me to control file playback, and other functions of a networked device. I guess.

And that is where I become stuck. Some seem to simply use their PCs to accomplish these things, while others buy a network music player (NMP). With the goal to rip all my CDs to lossless (and what is the easiest way to do that?), I am very fuzzy on how to get there, and what I need to purchase. Do I need to figure this out before purchasing an amp? Seems logical.

I am tempted to order a McIntosh MA5200 right now and call it good. Fits the current budget.

Or should I first maybe order an NMP and get that set up?

For control, what tablet, if any?

And there seem to be other ways to configure a home network using other types of devices. What type I should be considering to accomplish my goals of streamlining the system, making it easier to use without having 8 or 9 remote controls at hand thus at least giving SWMBOA (she who must be ordered about - she doesn't peruse AK, so I'll live) a shot at figuring it out, is a major consideration.

Other integrated amps I've found which interest me, beginning with the

Mark Levinson No. 585
Vinnie Rossi Lio
Creek Audio Evo 100 w/Ruby DAC
Krell Vanguard
NuPrime IDA-16

Most of these require waiting and saving, which is okay, too, since I have a lot to figure out, and the kitty grows nicely each month. The Creek is a little strange to be in this list, maybe. It certainly is affordable for my budget. However, I am concerned about its reliability, based on Stereophile's review, during which it had functional issues. I like its sleek profile. I also love the look of the equally svelte NuPrime - but with only a single unbal input... affordable, too.

The Vinnie Rossi's modular offerings allow one to better tailor the amp to his needs, and I really like its look and build quality.

Seems I need to talk with a local dealer to see what they offer, and to help me set up what I want.
 
Yes, I even considered asking if any AKers in his area would do that, but it seemed like a lot to ask. And when I considered offering that extra hundred, I knew we were going to need to discuss another way of paying - and the way his ad is worded, I wasn't certain at all that he'd be amenable to that. His feedback is so good that I was tempted, but it's a lot of money with which to trust a stranger on the net. Oh, well, moving on...

Shopping for a good integrated amp has really required me to think out where I want to go with my system, my goals:

better SQ
higher WAF re: using the system
better construction quality of amp system
a compatible home network, so I can
eliminate the clunk - my three 400-disc Sony players

So I was looking at integrated amps that will accommodate my current needs - while I should be giving more consideration to my needs in the near future. Things I don't need:

HT bypass - a non-issue for me
RIAA input - another non-issue

So I want a digital-source based system, but also want at least two unbal analog inputs for a Sony XDR-F1HD am/fm tuner and a spare for whatever. Maybe I'll plug my Integra cassette deck in just for anachronistic fun, since I'll have all this space from eliminating the CD players (huge beasts x three).

It seems as though almost all the components of this type updated configuration benefit greatly via the use of smart-phones or tablets, and I have been bragging for years about the fact that we only use a land-line phone, so it would seem a tablet is preferable for me to control file playback, and other functions of a networked device. I guess.

And that is where I become stuck. Some seem to simply use their PCs to accomplish these things, while others buy a network music player (NMP). With the goal to rip all my CDs to lossless (and what is the easiest way to do that?), I am very fuzzy on how to get there, and what I need to purchase. Do I need to figure this out before purchasing an amp? Seems logical.

I am tempted to order a McIntosh MA5200 right now and call it good. Fits the current budget.

Or should I first maybe order an NMP and get that set up?

For control, what tablet, if any?

And there seem to be other ways to configure a home network using other types of devices. What type I should be considering to accomplish my goals of streamlining the system, making it easier to use without having 8 or 9 remote controls at hand thus at least giving SWMBOA (she who must be ordered about - she doesn't peruse AK, so I'll live) a shot at figuring it out, is a major consideration.

Other integrated amps I've found which interest me, beginning with the

Mark Levinson No. 585
Vinnie Rossi Lio
Creek Audio Evo 100 w/Ruby DAC
Krell Vanguard
NuPrime IDA-16

Most of these require waiting and saving, which is okay, too, since I have a lot to figure out, and the kitty grows nicely each month. The Creek is a little strange to be in this list, maybe. It certainly is affordable for my budget. However, I am concerned about its reliability, based on Stereophile's review, during which it had functional issues. I like its sleek profile. I also love the look of the equally svelte NuPrime - but with only a single unbal input... affordable, too.

The Vinnie Rossi's modular offerings allow one to better tailor the amp to his needs, and I really like its look and build quality.

Seems I need to talk with a local dealer to see what they offer, and to help me set up what I want.

Perhaps a post on our Digital Sources page will get you in contact with folks who have the skills and experience to walk you through a simple but good music server set up. That way you do it once with known software and hardware, and get it done. Just a thought.

I used a Mac Mini because I had a DAC I wanted to continue using. I suspect a music server component from a mainstream company will have the quality of sound and service/support to make this possible and affordable. With these units you will get internal DAC's and output stages that will outperform the ones in the Sony changers. All I know is that if a pig with four hooves can do this, anyone can!

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Musichal says,
"And that is where I become stuck. Some seem to simply use their PCs to accomplish these things, while others buy a network music player (NMP). With the goal to rip all my CDs to lossless (and what is the easiest way to do that?), I am very fuzzy on how to get there, and what I need to purchase. Do I need to figure this out before purchasing an amp? Seems logical."

How do you access this forum, desktop PC, laptop, tablet? That's all you need, along with some simple software that you can install in minutes. You can achieve all your stated goals, and keep it very, very simple. You needn't get mired in the dizzying array of tech options, with a whole bunch of dazzling boxes strung together with an equally dizzying selection of exotic and anquish inducing types of cables, or worse yet, wireless wonders.
If you were to decide on the Mac 5200, and you're using an easy to get to desktop or laptop, and you've got a few minutes to do some reading about, oh, let's say James River for instance...you're in business. Keep it simple.
I'm using an old Gateway laptop with Win 7, into a Mac C2500 preamp. I don't know if it's the exact same DAC in there as the 5200 has...but I seriously doubt that you or I would ever know or care. Obviously, if you wanted a small pad or MiniMac for ease of handling, that would work. But the point is, the 5200, old Gateway laptop, and Khorns will have all the SQ you could ask for.
 
Musichal says,
"And that is where I become stuck. Some seem to simply use their PCs to accomplish these things, while others buy a network music player (NMP). With the goal to rip all my CDs to lossless (and what is the easiest way to do that?), I am very fuzzy on how to get there, and what I need to purchase. Do I need to figure this out before purchasing an amp? Seems logical."

How do you access this forum, desktop PC, laptop, tablet? That's all you need, along with some simple software that you can install in minutes. You can achieve all your stated goals, and keep it very, very simple. You needn't get mired in the dizzying array of tech options, with a whole bunch of dazzling boxes strung together with an equally dizzying selection of exotic and anquish inducing types of cables, or worse yet, wireless wonders.
If you were to decide on the Mac 5200, and you're using an easy to get to desktop or laptop, and you've got a few minutes to do some reading about, oh, let's say James River for instance...you're in business. Keep it simple.
I'm using an old Gateway laptop with Win 7, into a Mac C2500 preamp. I don't know if it's the exact same DAC in there as the 5200 has...but I seriously doubt that you or I would ever know or care. Obviously, if you wanted a small pad or MiniMac for ease of handling, that would work. But the point is, the 5200, old Gateway laptop, and Khorns will have all the SQ you could ask for.

Sounds good. However, I don't want to rip/store all my CDs in my laptop in a lossless format. I'd like to be able to control it with a small tablet, with storage remotely located and whatever wifi devices I need to receive/play the wified music at two different systems in different rooms.

I especially don't want a setup that requires a relatively large (and relatively heavy) laptop as my remote control - a small tablet would be so much handier.
 
It's funny you mentioned the MA5200. The gear I've got now sounds great, it's tube. But I've lusted for a McIntosh for years and years and have been looking at the 5200 as the "one and done". No tubes to mess with and replace, keeps its value and has the power to drive my Spendors, much less efficient than Khorns. But McIntosh and Klipsch have been paired for more years than I care to count so there must be some magic going on there.

Regarding the computer storage, a laptop with a relatively fast processor and a couple of terabytes of storage would do the trick. I'm using Roon software to manage my library and while it's not exactly easy to set up, it ain't hard, especially with all the help you can get on-line nowadays. ITunes is fine as well and is free. You can rip CDs to AIFF which is Apple's lossless format.

Roon's app runs great on my iPad.

But McIntosh and Klipsch, you might not be able to do much better.
 
Sounds good. However, I don't want to rip/store all my CDs in my laptop in a lossless format. I'd like to be able to control it with a small tablet, with storage remotely located and whatever wifi devices I need to receive/play the wified music at two different systems in different rooms.
.

Roon does all of this BTW. No affiliation but I am a fan.
 
I was wonderin' why you needed so many inputs

You can assemble a well configured Raspberry Pi based player for $200 and just need a network connected laptop/computer for music storage. It's about the same size as two decks of cards:
Do you have one you recommend?
 
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