Very quiet output @ max volume Pioneer SA-7100

max44

New Member
Hi! I moved my dad's SA-7100 over to my place to listen to some vinyl, but the volume is super, super quiet, even at the max setting (it also super quiet through the headphones and also if I use the tuner as the input).

I think that before I moved it, there was some issue with the left channels, so it was set up with two speakers in the A right channel and two speakers in the B right channel. At this point though, no (or very little) sound is coming out of either side.

Any thoughts as to what I should check?
 
You are effectively running four speakers on the right channel, thereby missing half of the stereo signal (the left channel).

More importantly, this grossly overloads the power supply and power amp sections. Without additional info, I would guess you've destroyed the right channel driver transistors (at a minimum).

Your amp is designed to drive only a pair of speakers per channel, at most (and that assumes 8 ohm speakers...if lower impedance, even two speakers will stress the amp).
 
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FYI...A and B are effectively the same connection (they are in parallel). The separate connections simply allow you to choose speaker a, speaker b, or both.

If you have A+B selected, with your atrangement you are asking the right "half" of the amp to drive FOUR speakers. Muy mal.
 
Thanks for the reply. Two questions...

1) Other than not having stereo sound, is it harmful to the system to run one (or two, but not four) speakers on the R channel without having anything connected to the L channel? Not that I want to do this - just trying to better understand how the speaker power system works.

2) Since the headphones also do not work properly, is there probably an issue with the preamp section as well?
 
Is your turntable plugged into a PHONO input? Did you try another high level source like a CD player?
 
It is plugged into the PHONO input. I also tried a tuner plugged into the TUNER input and got the same issue. Just now, I tried an MP3 player in the AUX input and same thing.

I also noticed that while the sound coming out the R channel is very faint at max volume, no sound is coming out the L channel (I currently have it set up with 1 speaker in the A left channel and 1 in the A right channel).
 
Silly questions....

Are there jumpers in the pre out/power in jacks?

Don't have a tape monitor engaged but nothing in place to complete the loop?
 
Yes, there are jumpers between the pre out/power in jacks.

I don't have a tape deck connected as an input, but I do have other inputs, like a turntable, radio, and MP3 player.

Sorry about the silly questions...I'm pretty new to all this...
 
There are two tape monitor switches on the front panel If either of these is activated without a tape deck plugged into the corresponding tape input on the back panel (or other line-level device, such as a cd player), there will be no signal being fed into the amp, and therefore nothing coming out of the amp. Simply put, activating the tape monitor switch is telling the amp that it should look for input from the tape monitor input connections (and only from those connections). Obviously, if there is no input there, the amp will be silent....or near silent; sometimes, if there is another source component connected and playing (such a cd player), a bit of its signal will bleed into the selected input, producing very faint output.

Regarding your question about problems with headphone output; in this unit, the headphones are fed by the same output circuit as the speakers (padded with resistors to drop the voltage). So it would be expected that problems with speaker output would be seen in headphone output as well. This is not an indication of problems in the preamp section.

Regarding your question about multiple speakers; this amp was designed to handle, at minimum, a 4 ohm load. Anything below that will stress the power supply and output circuit. Speakers present a "load" to the amp, determined by their impedance. The lower the impedance, the greater the current draw. For example, 4 ohm speakers draw twice the current of 8 ohm speakers.

Two 8 ohm speakers on the same circuit (same channel) = a 4 ohm load. Four 8 ohm speakers on the same circuit = a 2 ohm load. Two 4 ohm speakers = a 2 ohm load. Etc, etc.

The lower the impedance load, the higher the current draw. The higher the current draw, the more likely it becomes that you will have damage in the output circuit. Modern amps have various safeguards to protect the amp in the such situations, but on older units such as the SA-7100, protection is not nearly as robust. When you turn the unit on, are you seeing the protection light come on? It should come on for a few seconds. then go off. If it stays lit, it is an indication of a short in the output circuit.

There is some (very) small chance that dirt/oxidation in a selector switch (such as the tape monitor switches or tone defeat switch) or potentiometer (such as the volume control or tone controls) is the culprit, which is why the first advice given to folks having similar problems is to open up the unit and clean the switches and potentiometers (pots). Here is a link on that topic:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-idiots-guide-to-using-deoxit-revisited.207005/

While always a good idea with an older unit, given your symptoms and history, it is very unlikely that cleaning the controls will resolve your problem.

Do you have a digital multimeter?
 
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Great info. Thanks. And yes, I do have access to a multimeter.

The tape monitor switches are not engaged, and the protection light does come on. After a few seconds the light goes off (accompanied by a click).
 
With amp turned off, turn speaker selector to A, turn the input selector to AUX, volume at zero, tone controls and balance to center, and connect red probe to red connector of the right channel (Speaker A) and black probe to corresponding black connector (same channel, same speaker). Select DC on your meter. Turn on your amp. After protection relay closes (clicks), read the meter. Turn off the amp, and do the same measurement on the left channel.

What are your results?
 
If you know how to test transistors, I would suggest you pull the outputs and test them. Do the same with the drivers The outputs are mounted on the heatsinks (TO-3 packages). The drivers are 2SD356 and 2SB526, mounted on the power amp board. Service manual is here:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-7100.shtml

Manual is free after you register as a member at the site.

Let us know the results of transistor measurements. If you need help with the process, read here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/bipolar-junction-transistor-testing-basics.43186/

Note that with TO-3 style transistors, the case is the collector. The emitter and base pins will be marked. Also note that these transistors will be mounted with a mica insulator to keep the case from shorting to the heat sink. These are fragile, and must be replaced if cracked or broken. Additionally, when doing final replacement (after all repairs are done), a new layer of thermal compound should be applied between the transistor and th insulator, and between the insulator and the heat sink.
 
Two points. One - turn the volume down before testing If you leave it high, you might mess up the amp and ears when you finally get it fixed..Two - make sure there are no shorting jacks in unused output connectors. (look for plugs with no wires in them). Also, read sticky (in DIY I believe) about deoxit - it could be that one channel, then the other lose signal due to oxidation and dirty contacts. If you are getting the relay click, you shouldn't have a DC problem or need to pull transistors to test them at this point.
 
I thought I had tested almost every combination of switches before coming to this forum, but now that I'm back home looking at the amp, one of the tape monitor switches was on...I turned it off and bingo it works now - both the L & R channels ...feeling sorta stupid right now.

Thanks for y'all's help. You're an awesome community! My vinyl is singing now, and I've learned quite a bit about running my amp properly.
 
I guess it is hinting that it wants a tape deck hooked to it. Probably wants a reel to reel as a companion. LOL
 
I thought I had tested almost every combination of switches before coming to this forum, but now that I'm back home looking at the amp, one of the tape monitor switches was on...I turned it off and bingo it works now - both the L & R channels ...feeling sorta stupid right now.

Thanks for y'all's help. You're an awesome community! My vinyl is singing now, and I've learned quite a bit about running my amp properly.
Depending on your speakers impedence. If they are all 8Ω or more running all 4 will probably be OK. But if they are less than 8Ω. I'd only run that amplifier with 2 speakers. Welcome to AK..
 
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