Vintage car advice?

[RetroHacker]

I've been wanting to get another car for a while - something a little bit more fun and unusual than the Camry I drive now. Not that I don't love my Camry. It's a 1990 V6, and I love it - I'm not getting rid of that car. But I want something a little bigger, with more cargo room, and something that's more... well... older. I'm currently looking at a 1965 AMC Rambler Wagon. It's in decent condition, all things considered, and looks like it could be made road worthy. Apparently the engine will start, when starter fluid is used, but not continue to run. So it sounds like it has a bad fuel pump. From what I've heard, these cars shouldn't be bad to work on, and I know enough about cars to be dangerous - I should be able to manage to change a fuel pump, etc. But, there's some gothcha's here...
- I live with my parents, they don't particularly want another car in the driveway.
- I don't know how hard it's going to be to get parts for a Rambler.
- This thing is in Pittsburgh, and I'm near Albany. That's an 8 hour drive.
- Does a 1965 need leaded gas? Someone told me the cutoff was 68 - but I was thinking it was earlier. I don't know if I want to buy tons of lead substitute.
- It'll need work, I'm sure. Besides a fuel pump, I'm thinking the first things I should do would be to change the oil and crucial fluids, and drain the gas tank out (god knows how long it's been sitting), and replace belts, spark plugs, filters, plug wires, tires and other obviouses. Where do I even get an oil filter for a Rambler? - I don't think the book at Advance Auto Parts has a section for AMC.

I've never worked on old cars before - but I'm interested in learning. I don't want to restore it to mint factory condition or do any stupid hot rod stuff, all I want is a nice, old station wagon that runs and is reliable enough to get around town in. Currently the biggest problem is getting it here. I'd also have to buy it mostly sight unseen, I'm going by a few photos and a paragraph description on an eBay auction. I really want this car - but I'd like to get a little insight into this before I do something potentially really stupid. I know a lot of my fellow AK'ers are into old cars - so - any advice here?

Thanks! - I'd appreciate it!
-Ian

 

[usedto]

The biggest problem with a Rambler is that once you start, you have to be ready to make any part you can't buy. Ford & GM stuff is so popular that EVERYONE reproduces it. Not so for Rambler. AMC and Javelin stuff is out there, but that's all I know about. For starters, go on Kragen/Schucks website, put in 65 Rambler for the make and model, and see how many parts you can find. We just did a 71 El Clmino, nad thay had 99% of what we needed. That will give you a fair idea of what's out there.

Plan on changing ALL the seals, brakes,, wheel cylinders, BRAKE FLUID, etc. And, that car doesn't have disc brakes, so it won't stop like you are used to.

I am a Chevy nut, but I personally think the Rambler would be a SWEET ride. You'd probably be the only one on the block with one! Good Luck

Larry

 

[hakka26]

Not sure of the car per se but to get around the leaded gas issue have new (harder) valves and guides installed.

 

[analogue_lover]

vintage car?

Not sure of the car per se but to get around the leaded gas issue have new (harder) valves and guides installed.

Yup, I second THAT.
The nicest driving vintage car I ever experienced was the late 60's/early 70's Volvo 140. Really. Cheapo to maintain, as well!!!!

Mike :thmbsp:

 

[Fast_Eddie]

I drive a 1972 Mercury Capri every day. Have for years. I have two of them. Older cars are great if you don't mind doing the odd repair job on the weekend. I've never been left stranded.

Leaded gas was used up to 1975, at leas on Capris. But the dangers of running an older car on unleaded are wildly over stated. I just yanked the V6 out of my red Capri with well over 200,000 miles on it, most driven on unleaded. It still runs like a top.

As with any older car, do a compression and leak down test to see what condition the motor is in. It's easy to do with an inexpensive gauge. You can find instructions easily on the internet. This will tell you if you're Rambler is a runner or if you're looking at expensive work.

Search groups.yahoo.com and find an AMC or Rambler group. Parts might not be as bad as you think. Most orphan cars have someone who bought up all the NOS parts from the dealers. I almost believe I can recall hearing of a guy in Indiana who bought the AMC stuff. Worth a web search- just did one- there are several folks out there.

Shipping can sometimes take a while, and parts can be more expensive than "normal" cars, but older cars are much simpler and in many ways easier to take care of.

I wouldn't go back to a "real" car, at least right now. I have way to much fun in my old Capris.

Take care,

Ed

 

[Fast_Eddie]

Oh, I strongly recomend an upgrade to electronic ignition. Makes a world of difference in drivability and fule mileage.

Take care,

Ed

 

[hakka26]

I wouid do the valve changeout for peace of mind and if it is
within budget. Car might run a little hotter without change. Otherwise as fast eddie states it is somewhat overblown.

 

[Fast_Eddie]

The "issue" with unleaded fuel is valve seat recession on the exhaust valves. The car will run just fine on ulnleaded, and if the valve seats do sink, you can do the work then. No need to pull the heads for a preventitive job.

If the engine needs a valve job anyway, it's not a bad idea to have the hardened seats installed, however there is added expense. As the years have gone by, more and more people are skipping this step. Some believe that if you run leaded fule, or a lead substitue as the engine is broken in, it provides signicant protection for the life of the motor. Not sure if that's true.

Take care,

Ed

 

[theodoric]

I'm currently looking at a 1965 AMC Rambler Wagon. It's in decent condition, all things considered, and looks like it could be made road worthy. Apparently the engine will start, when starter fluid is used, but not continue to run. So it sounds like it has a bad fuel pump.

No doubt it is hiding other secrets that will make themselves known AFTER money has changed hands.

I live with my parents, they don't particularly want another car in the driveway.

Then wait until you get your own place.

I don't know how hard it's going to be to get parts for a Rambler.

Harder than you'd think. And more expensive.

This thing is in Pittsburgh, and I'm near Albany. That's an 8 hour drive.

So it will take you two days - three, in the snow, to get it back to Albany. And they will be filled with joy.

Does a 1965 need leaded gas? Someone told me the cutoff was 68 - but I was thinking it was earlier. I don't know if I want to buy tons of lead substitute.

That's going to be the least of your worries. Trust me on this. You're assuming that it's actually going to run regularly, which is doubtful.

It'll need work, I'm sure. Besides a fuel pump, I'm thinking the first things I should do would be to change the oil and crucial fluids, and drain the gas tank out (god knows how long it's been sitting), and replace belts, spark plugs, filters, plug wires, tires and other obviouses. Where do I even get an oil filter for a Rambler? - I don't think the book at Advance Auto Parts has a section for AMC.

If it's been sitting for an unknown period of time - back East, of all places - it has way more sins than the ones you've listed.

I've never worked on old cars before - but I'm interested in learning. I don't want to restore it to mint factory condition or do any stupid hot rod stuff, all I want is a nice, old station wagon that runs and is reliable enough to get around town in. Currently the biggest problem is getting it here. I'd also have to buy it mostly sight unseen, I'm going by a few photos and a paragraph description on an eBay auction. I really want this car - but I'd like to get a little insight into this before I do something potentially really stupid. I know a lot of my fellow AK'ers are into old cars - so - any advice here?

Yes. That is NOT the car, nor is it the time, to begin your tinkering career. Just say no. Wait until you have your own place, with your own garage, and start with a car that runs, and has available parts. If you're successful with that, then you can dig into junkers. What seems like an okay idea now will be, in retrospect, just a waste of time and money.

 

[Bigerik]

I drive a 1972 Mercury Capri every day. Have for years. I have two of them. Older cars are great if you don't mind doing the odd repair job on the weekend. I've never been left stranded.

Big :thmbsp: to you Ed, for driving the Capri every day. That was a true hidden gem in the Ford lineup during the 70's. That car had so much potential, it should have stomped all over the Pinto based Mustang of the era. Ford of Europe did so truly great stuff with it. Perfect size for a sports coupe. Great engine.
My fav version was the one made by Aston Martin Tickford in the mid 80's. Looked just like a small AM Vantage of the time, with an Aston'ish leather interior, etc. VERY sweet ride!
Sorry for the hijack. Back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[usedto]

Ditto that. And, FYI, on the 71 el camino we did, I TRADED for the engine job and the paint job and still put $7000.00 in it, and it is nowhere near a show car. It is my son's daily driver.

 

[Adam]

Those old ramblers are generally good cars, from what I've heard, I never had one myself. And being a wagon you could haul alot of TVs, stereos, or whatever in it. I wouldn't worry too much about the unleaded gas, I used to run my 72 Impala on it, you really only need to worry about that if it has a really high performance engine with say a 10/1 compression ratio or higher.
I'm not so sure the problem it has would be the fuel pump though. They don't go bad that often. Has it been sitting a long time? If a car sits for a few years the gas sometimes turns into a kind of 'jelled' substance and clogs the fuel line. Also the gas in the fuel line and carb could have just dried up and it would take a while to pump more gas up there. Pull on the throttle and see if gas actually comes through the jets in the carburator.
If there is gas in the carburator but it still doesn't run, after sitting for a while the rubber parts, gaskets, etc. in the carb tend to dry out, rendering the carb inoperable. Even if the fuel pump turns out to be bad, if the car has been sitting for more than a year or so the carb probably is bad too and needs to be replaced or rebuilt. If you buy a replacement try to find a new one, usually at least half of the rebuilds you get will be bad.
Also the spark plugs should be cleaned and gapped, or replaced. Many times I have been unable to get a car running only to find out the problem is just dirty plugs. Just fooling with the car trying to start it for a while will dirty the plugs. Check the wires for places where the exhaust manifold could have melted them as well, and the contacts on the distributor cap and rotor while you're at it. The points should also be replaced and set.
Also after having sat for a while, the oil and filter should be changed, as well as the coolant, and all rubber hoses and belts replaced.
The problems that I would look for before buying the car that would render a car really nearly impossible to restore would be excessive rust, or body damage so bad that the frame itself was bent.
And in getting an old car, a whole new world of vintage electronic collecting opens up, vintage car audio! :yes: I just got a trunkload of car 8-track players at a thrift store yesterday.

 

[Bigerik]

say no. Wait until you have your own place, with your own garage, and start with a car that runs, and has available parts. If you're successful with that, then you can dig into junkers. What seems like an okay idea now will be, in retrospect, just a waste of time and money.

Not wanting to rain on your parade here, but I gotta agree with Theodoric on this one. I have started with cars that ran and were safetied and road legal and still run into a ton of grief. Something like that Rambler will probably be a 10 year project on night and weekends and will produce a really sweet ride when done. No issues there. If this is your first foray into this, I can't imagine it being a daily driver anytime in the near future.
Best bet if you wanna start playing is get something like a early to mid 80's Chevy Impala with a carb and a small block, preferably a 305. Parts are DIRT cheap and readily available. It will give you a good taste for working on these things, without killing you on parts costs. They are also very easy to work on. I sold parts for many years, and these were about the best thing around for the diy mechanic. Probably not as sexy as your Rambler, but it is different, and will give you a good approximation of handling and braking.
Just my 2 cents!

 

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know about AMC engines but I rebuilt the 390 in my 76 Ford F-250 and had it balanced. I put a RV 3 cam in it and it's run since 1988 with standard valves and on unleaded gas since they did away with it. The engine has 110,000 miles on it and has lost some steam but still hauls the firewood

 

[ekimetsok]

Originally Posted by RetroHacker
"I don't know how hard it's going to be to get parts for a Rambler."

How hard could it be? Weren't the bulk of AMC's mechanical and electrical parts from that era actually built by the other Big 3? (I had a '59 Rambler Deluxe that had a Chrysler push-button transmission, Pontiac tail light lenses, Ford engine and bore a Body by Fisher insignia. Even the keys looked suspiciously like Chevrolets).

 

[jpdylon]

Being a previous AMC owner, I'll give you this advice.....

This is definitely not your first car. I had a 1964 Rambler classic that was not a bad car-- after you got everything fixed. There is a very limited number rambler parts left in the world. I got most of my parts from American Parts Depot. THey are the largest rembler supplier in the world. THey manufacture parts that are no longer made as well as carry original parts in stock, but BOY ARE THEY EXPENSIVE some times.

You also really have to have prior automotive knoledge, because the service manuals don't explain how to fix things like a chiltons would. I had to fabricate parts at times to make things work right. Not a good starter at all.


My first car was a 74 Dodge Dart. Reliable as hell, parts everywhere, and easy to work on. If you want the classy look, I would pick any mopar from 63-68 with a 225 slant six and a 905 or 727 automatic. Most cars came with that option as standard and lots of them are out there. perhaps not a tire smoker, but an enjoyable reliable car that would be great for a first experience.

Older fords and especially chevys are getting expensive for what they are, especially on the west coast here. older mopars are cheap to own, reliable, and enjoyable to drive.

 

[Fast_Eddie]

You know, to be fair, these guys might be right. I did this when I was in my early 30s with a house and good income. The Capri was very popular in Europe, and while the sometimes need to be imported, the parts are redily available (Though shipping time can kill you). Even with that advantage, a turn signal switch for a '72 Capri is $350.

Having said that, what it boils down to is the condition of the car. None of us here know enough to say. When I bought my daily driver, I had a friend who lived near the car- another Capri owner- check out the car and drive it. I knew exactly what I was getting into and have a garage full of parts and tools. Under these conditions, it's a really fun and different thing to do.

To be responsible, I'd say keep looking. Find something that is running that you can drive and the issues known. It's fine if it needs a thing or two, but you should know going in. Cars hate sitting. It's the worst thing you can do to a car. You would be better off finding a car that is being driver regularly. But, good ones are out there, and a car that you just want to drive can be had for cheap.

Take care,

Ed

 

[theodoric]

Okay, now that I've seen the auction and looked at the pictures, that's what we typically call a "rat" or a "roach". There's no way that's going to be a daily driver any time soon.

I'm going to repeat my earlier suggestion: get your own place with your own garage before you start dabbling in stuff like this.

I've had more than 40 cars, none newer than five years old, and some more than 60 years old. I've had American cars, British cars, French cars, Italian cars, German cars, Swedish cars, Japanese cars, and even Australian cars. My first car was a brand you've never heard of, have probably never seen, and don't even know exists. Let my mistakes guide your judgement.

 

[Bigerik]

My first car was a brand you've never heard of, have probably never seen, and don't even know exists. Let my mistakes guide your judgement.

Ok. Now I am really curious. What was it?

 

[theodoric]

Sunbeam Tiger.

But I've also had such craziness as a Renault Gordini Alpine, Lancia Zagato, Datsun 1600 Roadster, Morgan Plus 4, Saab Sonnet, Jensen Interceptor, etc. I likes 'em weird.