Vintage DAC

jt1135

Super Member
Thinking of getting a vintage dac to hook up to a audio analogue paganini cdp (coax) and a Yamaha CDC 775 (toslink). I run Spotify Premium from computer to McCormack preamp using a Jitterbug and Dragonfly red. So something that has both inputs. Thinking McCormack DAC-1, Metrum Octave or a Bel Canto DAC2. They all run about five hundred give or take. Practically all my listening is either vinyl or cd with some Spotify thrown in. Any thoughts.
 
Aragon D2A is an excellent sounding unit. I still use mine even though I also have a Chord Qutest. It actually sounds slightly better on CD or CDs ripped to FLAC than the Qutest, but the Aragon maxes out at 48Khz.
 
Thinking McCormack DAC-1, Metrum Octave or a Bel Canto DAC2.

That's an odd bunch, technology wise. If you must have vintage I'd look in the direction of multibit Parasound D/AC units. Better yet be on lookout for a Denon DVD-5000, it has coax and toslink inputs and can be used as a DAC, very good.

As for Spotify Premium, you're losing on the qualify by playing from the PC, have a look at Chromecast Audio for Spotify.
 
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Thinking of getting a vintage dac to hook up to a audio analogue paganini cdp (coax) and a Yamaha CDC 775 (toslink). I run Spotify Premium from computer to McCormack preamp using a Jitterbug and Dragonfly red. So something that has both inputs. Thinking McCormack DAC-1, Metrum Octave or a Bel Canto DAC2. They all run about five hundred give or take. Practically all my listening is either vinyl or cd with some Spotify thrown in. Any thoughts.

How old do you want to go? I still think the old CAL Alphas were a tremendously good sounding mid-range DAC, with great output flexibility via rolling of the analog stage tubing. The Sigma IIs almost as much. Drop really nice 5751s in the output stages, and they are quite refined and liquid sounding. While some prefer the old pre 24/96 models, if you absolutely require 24-bit capability, the later 24/96 upgraded ones are still very nice, very smooth, and you can roll away any perceived 'detail' issues that might result.

Both had panel selectable coax/optical inputs.

I run a Squeezebox though one still in a spare system, and the CAL runs circles around the onboard DAC and analog sections of the 20 year newer SB. Much more musical.
 
How old do you want to go? I still think the old CAL Alphas were a tremendously good sounding mid-range DAC, with great output flexibility via rolling of the analog stage tubing. The Sigma IIs almost as much. Drop really nice 5751s in the output stages, and they are quite refined and liquid sounding. While some prefer the old pre 24/96 models, if you absolutely require 24-bit capability, the later 24/96 upgraded ones are still very nice, very smooth, and you can roll away any perceived 'detail' issues that might result.

Both had panel selectable coax/optical inputs.

I run a Squeezebox though one still in a spare system, and the CAL runs circles around the onboard DAC and analog sections of the 20 year newer SB. Much more musical.

I like that idea. Never tried tubes at all so this might be a good way to dip my toes in the water.
 
Another vote for the Parasound D/AC units (D/AC-1000 ~ D/AC-1500 ~ D/AC-1100HD ~ D/AC-1600HD ~ D/AC-2000 Ultra).
Currently own two D/AC-1000 and they aint going anywhere,they're keepers.
They can also be upgraded to do 24/96 via kits available on ebay.

Adcom GDA-600 & GDA-700 are also good DAC's to consider as well,and both respond to subtle mods very well.

HTH

Bret P.
 
I'll third the Parasound D/AC-1000. The two guys above had recommended one in an older thread and it does everything they said it did. Careful shopping can get you one for roughly 100 bucks or so. Plus the build quality is over the top.

BillWojo
 
I have a lead on a used Parasound d/ac 1000. I may pick it up. It would be cool to put it in with my other Parasound gear.
For what they usually go for I'd say go for it. ;)

There are some very informed folks that feel the PCM63 multi-bit chips were/are about as good a DAC as one can find.

I've run across quotes like this on other audio forums:
Jud @ Couputer Audiophile said:
There's a thread on Head-Fi where Mike Moffat (posting as "baldr"), who pretty well invented the DAC as a separate box, says he still considers the PCM63 the best DAC chip ever made.

In case you dont know who Mike Moffat is:
Schiit website said:
Schiit got started in 2010 when two audio industry veterans decided it was time to shake things up a bit. The two audiophiles are Jason Stoddard, formerly of Sumo, and Mike Moffat, formerly of Theta. Together, they have designed dozens of audio and A/V products, from the Andromeda III to the Cobalt 307 to the DS Pre and Angstrom 200.

I honeslty cant understand why these PCM63 DAC's are'nt some of the most sought after pieces out there ???
But I'm glad they still fly under the radar for now,as I love mine,and I hope to score a few more someday.
So I better quit raving about them here or the prices are gonna end up in the stratosphere.

FWIW

Bret P.
 
"Vintage" DAC? I must be getting old ... <G>

Best I can say is yes, there were some well designed and constructed early gen DACs, but the chips and software have improved exponentially over time. If all you want to do is play a CD or two, you should be fine, but I'd wonder about a lot of the newer formats and codecs ...
 
For what they usually go for I'd say go for it. ;)

There are some very informed folks that feel the PCM63 multi-bit chips were/are about as good a DAC as one can find.

I've run across quotes like this on other audio forums:


In case you dont know who Mike Moffat is:


I honeslty cant understand why these PCM63 DAC's are'nt some of the most sought after pieces out there ???
But I'm glad they still fly under the radar for now,as I love mine,and I hope to score a few more someday.
So I better quit raving about them here or the prices are gonna end up in the stratosphere.

FWIW

Bret P.

Good info, thanks!
 
I found the quote vvvv from MM over @ head-fi:
Baldr said:
Further, in the early 1990's the DAC chip technology had peaked with the PCM63, IMHO the best fu***n audio branded DAC ever made
And then there's this vvvv quote...
Baldr said:
What was worse was all of the good DACs were disappearing. Even the new multibit PCM1704 DAC sounded like ass compared to the PCM63. It was time to get out of the DAC business.
Now obviously he did'nt STAY outta the DAC making business,,,seeing as Schiit is currently one of the bigger names in the DAC making community...

But that's some pretty strong praise for the PCM63 if you ask me.

He goes on to talk about how things evolved from there.
View thread here >>> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...obable-start-up.701900/page-223#post-10976190
(It's an epic thread folks,so be prepared for some serious reading)

FWIW

Bret P.
 
but the chips and software have improved exponentially over time.
Then what explains the recent resurgence of R2R DACs in the high end DAC marketplace ? :wtf:
I'm willing to bet if the current DAC co.s could get chips like the PCM63 they'd still be offering DACs using them.
Some (many) high end DAC makers had been using the PCM1704 chips till the supply was completely exhausted (Audio-gd did among others).
And that was'nt all that long ago @ all either.
If all you want to do is play a CD or two, you should be fine, but I'd wonder about a lot of the newer formats and codecs
Some of us are strictly redbook listeners,and have absolutely zero interest in new formats -or- codecs. ;)

But FWIW the Parasound D/AC series with the PCM63 chips can easily be upgraded to handle 24/96 material if so desired.
Kits for that are available on Ebay for not too much $$$$.

And then there are other mods like adding sockets so one can do some opamp rolling for even better SQ.

Ask me,it would take some serious coin to best my D/AC-1000 w/a modern DAC.

Anyhow I guess the old >>>> YMMV <<<< should be added to all my posts here...

I hope folks keep dumping these old DACs for pennies on the dollar,that'll keep guys like me plenty happy for years & years to come.

To each their own no doubt.

:cool:

Bret P.
 
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Here is a pic of the Parasound D/AC-1000 with the lid off.
Parasound%2BD%2BAC-1000%2Binside.jpg


Notice the three linear power supplies, the fact that all the main chips are socketed and look at the caps on the far right, Black Gates!
Not a lot of compromises in this build.
xero-D-hero, let them all think that the newer tech is all that and than some. If newer and better versions of the PCM63P chip were still being manufactured there would be no talk of DS type DAC's, the manufactures had no choice but to go a different route. Even the boutique DAC builders are coming back to the core R2R type of build because it just sounds better.

BillWojo
 
Here is a pic of the Parasound D/AC-1000 with the lid off.
Parasound%2BD%2BAC-1000%2Binside.jpg


Notice the three linear power supplies, the fact that all the main chips are socketed and look at the caps on the far right, Black Gates!
Not a lot of compromises in this build.
xero-D-hero, let them all think that the newer tech is all that and than some. If newer and better versions of the PCM63P chip were still being manufactured there would be no talk of DS type DAC's, the manufactures had no choice but to go a different route. Even the boutique DAC builders are coming back to the core R2R type of build because it just sounds better.

BillWojo

Interesting, yours have a Yamaha SPDIF receiver. These are said to be somewhat jittery. Mine has CS8412.
 
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