Vintage High End Tube amps list

[Blue Shadow]

Can we define what high end means?

I doubt it without some arguments.

With the price of gear increasing over the decades, it is hard to say what is high end or not based on price. Is a mono 50wpc power amp high end in 1978 if selling for $500? Who is going to do the statistics on that price point in that time? I know what high end is and unfortunately there isn't enough discussion ofit here on AK. I mean with the Pio/Mar/Sui Tax lifting the prices for that gear to the point of being able to buy nice vintage high end gear, I would much rather get the high end stuff. I'm not collecting, putting away a nest egg or infatuated with those brands, just looking for the best for the short money and that can be vintage high end, if I knew what to look for.

 

[Adam N.]

What I am saying is pretty simple, it would be stuff that was really expensive when it was produced. Dynaco wouldn't be high end. It's good, it's widely respected. Lots of people like it (including me) but it's never going to be high end. Mac is pretty much always going to he high end at least until things start going bonkers with six digit systems. Think Krell and Magico. That's high end. There' simply no arguing. Nothing that ever sold in kit form will ever be high end. At best Dynaco and Heathkit are going to be budget systems.

For high end there should be some form of awe. Mild awe maybe but something well beyond interesting.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Well then I leave my question to you about that amp. I don't know if it fits the criteria of you statistics. Additionally, how do all those early Mac and Marantz tube units fair dollar-wise as to their high end status?

 

[Adam N.]

I wonder when the high end market really started. I think the spread of wealth came later, in the Regan era. CEOs used to make, maybe, 10 times what a factory floor worker did. Now they make hundreds of times. Income tax rates were higher for the very rich. There was not million dollar cars until the Bugatti Veyron, now there are quite a few. I think the spread between a Chevy and a Ferrari was a lot smaller back in the sixties. All of this is a response to demographics. You can't have $3000 per foot cables without people that can buy them without thinking about it.

What was the most expensive amp of the sixties, seventies and eighties? When did it become possible to purchase an amp that was 50% and 100% of median household income? Were there any $5000 amps in 1965? That would have been close to 90% of HHI. Were there even any $2500 amps (just under 50% of HHI).

I imagine there's quite a few $50,000 amps now (about current HHI) because if the large global increase in the super rich.

High end needs wow factor and your just not going to get that it 2-3% of HHI. It needs to seem crazy luxurious.

 

[Pio1980]

The Reagan era, and unreported /unreportable (illegal) income no doubt fed at least part of the high end market.
Otherwise, there's always been a high end market, Web search "orchestrons", and "residence pipe organs".

 

[Adam N.]

The Reagan era, and unreported /unreportable (illegal) income no doubt fed at least part of the high end market.
Otherwise, there's always been a high end market, Web search "orchestrons", and "residence pipe organs".

There may have always been a high end market but the OP was about amplifiers not orchstrons. I think this is about typical stereo type audio gear. My theory is that there the spread of price has broadened. There's more than one $600,000 amp available now. That's around 11 times median HHI. I am pretty sure there are dozens of amps at household income (HHI). Were there any $6000 amps in 1965 priced at or close to HHI.

Anther way of looking at this would be to index amplifier price to home price. The average house in the united states sells for $309,000 the most expensive amp is $650,000. Lets say that high end starts at 25% of median home price or about $75,000. Maybe that's a bit too high, so say high end is 10% of median home price or $31,000. Above 50% average home price is ultra high end. I like this measure better because it's kind of a measure of purchasing power for consumers.

According to the US census:

Median home price is 1965 was $21,000 so a $2,100 amp would qualify.
Median home price is 1975 was $37,900 so a $3,790 amp would qualify.
Median home price is 1985 was $80,500 so a $8,500 amp would qualify.
Median home price is 1995 was $133,700 so a $13,370 amp would qualify.
Median home price is 2005 was $226,100 so a $22,610 amp would qualify.
Median home price is 2015 was $255,100 so a $25,100 amp would qualify.

Most Macintosh products will not make this cut but there are plenty of amps that will now. So, Mac is really more like a premium, say BMW 5 series kind of product but not so much like a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

 

[Pio1980]

Let's say that a premium end stereo power amp ran ca $200-$400 ca 1960, when a nice house in a nice area ran ca $20k- $30k, ca 1% more or less.

 

[Adam N.]

I don't think you can peg "a house in a nice area". It needs to be tied to HHI so that you can just have a reliable stat to base it on.

Premium is probably a good word. A BMW 5 series is a good premium over a regular American sedan. A theoretical middle or upper middle class person can buy one if they make sacrifices elsewhere. Again, I am not awed by a 5 series.

I am not really sure when loony HIFI took off. My guess is not until worker productivity and compensation stopped tracking each other in the 80s and capitol started to pocket the gap.

 

[Pio1980]

Let's say an present day Mac amp goes for about as much as a decent servicable preowned car on average. There are certainly higher priced examples, but I don't know what the Bugatti Chiron of amps is these days.

 

[Adam N.]

https://www.whathifi.com/features/10-worlds-most-expensive-stereo-amplifiers

 

[Pio1980]

https://www.whathifi.com/features/10-worlds-most-expensive-stereo-amplifiers

So they can and do cover the McLaren range.
Oh, goody!! Whipping out the ole checkbook as I post this.
(Not.)

 

[Pio1980]

These make some Nelson Pass gear with Zu Dirty Weekends look pretty good.

 

[Adam N.]

Let's say an present day Mac amp goes for about as much as a decent servicable preowned car on average. There are certainly higher priced examples, but I don't know what the Bugatti Chiron of amps is these days.

Again, you need to index this against something that means the same place no matter where you are and doesn't depend on a definition of "serviceable".

I would be really curious to know if anyone can chime in with what was the most expensive amp of the mid sixties, seventies and eighties.

 

[Pio1980]

Again, you need to index this against something that means the same place no matter where you are and doesn't depend on a definition of "serviceable".

I would be really curious to know if anyone can chime in with what was the most expensive amp of the mid sixties, seventies and eighties.

Home or otherwise? The MI350 ($1150) was pro, for instance. The MC3500 $1100 ca 1971.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Look through old TAS and see what they were reviewing, their way to use some of the best gear cheap. Note competing models and check their prices.

 

[radioactive]

Wow this thread has gone for a derail.

 

[radioactive]

Let's get it back on track.

 

[McGowdog]

In my experience dynaco belongs on another list. A Dynaco st 70 in stock form does not put out 35 watts per channel with both channels driven. I have personally verified this. Even with a brand new set of tubes the 70 is a 25 watt per channel amp, when hooked to the dummy load and my hewlett packard distortion analyzer. For comparisons sake I hooked a rusty, all original McIntosh MC30 (specs claim it's a 30 watt 6l6 amp) to the same analyzer, and it made 45 watts at about 1%. People have opinions and that's fine, we all have different ears. If your opinions are based on published specs, please attempt to verify those specs before presenting your opinion as fact. It's pretty well known that Dynaco fudged the specs. High end gear exceeded specs, and that performance is verifiable with the right equipment.

I wouldn't consider listening to an st-70.

The Dynaco Mark iiis with NOS Tung Sol solid gray plates or black plate 6550s is what I listen to, with a Pas 2 of course.

But hey that's just me.

 

[2526]

Luxman 5M21

 

[Blue Shadow]

Luxman 5M21

solid state