Arkay
Lunatic Member
I found another pair of Pioneer headphones in a junk/antique shop. This time they were SE-20A cans. This is the third pair of vintage headphones I've found in that same shop, so I'll keep going back there. 
I couldn't recall ever hearing about this model before, and while they had the big, solid cups and sturdy metal frames common with vintage headphones, I wasn't sure they'd be anything nice, so at first I passed over them. I already have too many vintage headphones, and only want to get ones that are sonic upgrades to the ones I already have. Out of curiosity, though, I looked them up online.
Not a lot of info about them out there, some of it in Japanese, apparently all positive, though, including two references to these being "the most popular" headphones of their day! So I went back and got them, after getting the price reduced from $12 to $10.
Brought them home, cleaned them up a bit, and gave them a listen. Quite decent sound, except for one thing: I didn't like the somewhat boomy or flabby and slightly too-strong bass. I'm used to pretty good (strong but tight) bass from the Beyerdynamics, and this sloppy booming just spoiled the listening experience for me.
Having recently read a thread on the head-fi forum about tweaking TOTL Denon headphones into "extremely audiophile" form, I decided to try some of the tricks applied there ("the Markl mods") to deal with sloppy bass. Actually, the mods there were done with Extreme Dynamat as dampener. Since I didn't have any of that handy, I just used Blu-tac. Somewhat less effective, but much better than nothing.
At first, I applied it all over the back of the cup, and around the outer frame (not sure what to call this). This increased the pressure on the back of the foam that fills the cups. No good: the sound was over-damped, including the mids and highs, and the volume had to be ramped up significantly to equal what it had been before this mod. There probably wasn't enough room, and it caused the foam to put pressure on the back of the cones, I'm guessing.
I removed the Blu-tac from some areas, and began experimenting with different amounts in different areas. At some point, the foam that I thought had been "stuck" to the back of the driver unit fell off, and I said, "AHA!"... sitting there was the metal back of the driver's 'motor'. :yes: (I wish there was a smilie with a lightbulb lighting over one's head!)...
I removed the Blu-tack from the interior entirely, and put some over the motor, instead. Voila! The bass has pretty much lost its annoying "bloom" and tightened up significantly, without adverse effect upon the mids and highs. If anything, the mids and highs shine through better, not being so overpowered by the bass.
So is the bass still there? Oh my gosh, YES! I just heard a passage (AM radio via Marantz 2285B) with the string bass section of an orchestra digging away, and it was some of the richest, lowest bass I've ever heard in headphones, comparable to my Beyerdynamics in depth and strength, although still not quite as clear in the details/nuances/overtones.
In short, these headphones with their initially sloppy, bottom-heavy sound are sounding very nice now. I'm still going to work more on them, as I think a bit more can be done to "clean up" the sound even further, but even at this point, these are already quite pleasant to listen to. I've been listening through them as they are now for about 1-1/2 hours, and have no listener fatigue nor any complaints.
These are NOT actually giant-killers that are going to slay TOTL Sennheisers, Beyers, Denons, AKGs, Koss or Grados, let alone Stax Earspeakers, but right now they are probably the best-sounding vintage-era headphones I've found yet. They were NOT before a bit of Blu-tac was put on the motors, but they are now. After this, I'll try putting some Blu-tac on the driver motors of my SE-505 bass drivers, since they are also a bit boomy/flabby, which might make them better than the SE-20As, but I'm not sure.
The cones on these are some kind of very thick cardboard(!). Surprising how musical they are. One good thing about the design is how the drivers are set out a good distance from the ears, and angled towards them. This 'opens up' the soundstage quite nicely, compared with speakers that have the cones closer-set to the ears.
I still want to cut the reverberant "echo" of the cups a bit, so I'll look for something less massive than the Blu-tac - perhaps thin felt or acoustic paint-- to treat the inside of the cup with, at least partially. A few other experiments lie ahead, too, because I can "hear" that even more potential lies in these headphones. But already they are pretty pleasant/nice to listen to! Amazing what a difference a small amount of Blu-tac can make!
Just thought I'd share this, in case there are other owners of these headphones here who would like to try this tweak. I'd love to hear what other owners think of these headphones, both before and after trying this.
I couldn't recall ever hearing about this model before, and while they had the big, solid cups and sturdy metal frames common with vintage headphones, I wasn't sure they'd be anything nice, so at first I passed over them. I already have too many vintage headphones, and only want to get ones that are sonic upgrades to the ones I already have. Out of curiosity, though, I looked them up online.
Not a lot of info about them out there, some of it in Japanese, apparently all positive, though, including two references to these being "the most popular" headphones of their day! So I went back and got them, after getting the price reduced from $12 to $10.
Brought them home, cleaned them up a bit, and gave them a listen. Quite decent sound, except for one thing: I didn't like the somewhat boomy or flabby and slightly too-strong bass. I'm used to pretty good (strong but tight) bass from the Beyerdynamics, and this sloppy booming just spoiled the listening experience for me.
Having recently read a thread on the head-fi forum about tweaking TOTL Denon headphones into "extremely audiophile" form, I decided to try some of the tricks applied there ("the Markl mods") to deal with sloppy bass. Actually, the mods there were done with Extreme Dynamat as dampener. Since I didn't have any of that handy, I just used Blu-tac. Somewhat less effective, but much better than nothing.
At first, I applied it all over the back of the cup, and around the outer frame (not sure what to call this). This increased the pressure on the back of the foam that fills the cups. No good: the sound was over-damped, including the mids and highs, and the volume had to be ramped up significantly to equal what it had been before this mod. There probably wasn't enough room, and it caused the foam to put pressure on the back of the cones, I'm guessing.
I removed the Blu-tac from some areas, and began experimenting with different amounts in different areas. At some point, the foam that I thought had been "stuck" to the back of the driver unit fell off, and I said, "AHA!"... sitting there was the metal back of the driver's 'motor'. :yes: (I wish there was a smilie with a lightbulb lighting over one's head!)...
I removed the Blu-tack from the interior entirely, and put some over the motor, instead. Voila! The bass has pretty much lost its annoying "bloom" and tightened up significantly, without adverse effect upon the mids and highs. If anything, the mids and highs shine through better, not being so overpowered by the bass.
So is the bass still there? Oh my gosh, YES! I just heard a passage (AM radio via Marantz 2285B) with the string bass section of an orchestra digging away, and it was some of the richest, lowest bass I've ever heard in headphones, comparable to my Beyerdynamics in depth and strength, although still not quite as clear in the details/nuances/overtones.
In short, these headphones with their initially sloppy, bottom-heavy sound are sounding very nice now. I'm still going to work more on them, as I think a bit more can be done to "clean up" the sound even further, but even at this point, these are already quite pleasant to listen to. I've been listening through them as they are now for about 1-1/2 hours, and have no listener fatigue nor any complaints.
These are NOT actually giant-killers that are going to slay TOTL Sennheisers, Beyers, Denons, AKGs, Koss or Grados, let alone Stax Earspeakers, but right now they are probably the best-sounding vintage-era headphones I've found yet. They were NOT before a bit of Blu-tac was put on the motors, but they are now. After this, I'll try putting some Blu-tac on the driver motors of my SE-505 bass drivers, since they are also a bit boomy/flabby, which might make them better than the SE-20As, but I'm not sure.
The cones on these are some kind of very thick cardboard(!). Surprising how musical they are. One good thing about the design is how the drivers are set out a good distance from the ears, and angled towards them. This 'opens up' the soundstage quite nicely, compared with speakers that have the cones closer-set to the ears.
I still want to cut the reverberant "echo" of the cups a bit, so I'll look for something less massive than the Blu-tac - perhaps thin felt or acoustic paint-- to treat the inside of the cup with, at least partially. A few other experiments lie ahead, too, because I can "hear" that even more potential lies in these headphones. But already they are pretty pleasant/nice to listen to! Amazing what a difference a small amount of Blu-tac can make!
Just thought I'd share this, in case there are other owners of these headphones here who would like to try this tweak. I'd love to hear what other owners think of these headphones, both before and after trying this.
