[vintage receiver] + [mp3 player] = [low volume]

coldmark

Member
I hooked up my "new" Kenwood KR-3090 and it really kicks at only 27wpc when playing FM. With a smile on my face I hooked up my Sony Walkman mp3 player to the aux input and the volume level was disappointing, even with the mp3 player volume at max.

I have searched but can't find a solution that makes sense to me. Would some type of preamp be the solution? Please advise, thanks!
 
The output of the mp3 player is low. To get higher volume yes you will need a preamp. You'd get the same result with a brand new amp that you got with your KR-3090 unless the input sensitivity rating is different.
 
Get an Ipod. I let my son try his Ipod on my system and it does kick without problems. Of course we know mp3 players tend to sound more muddier than cd players.
 
I will try my son's ipod tonight. I used his ipod into a car stereo and never noticed a volume dropoff. If I remember correctly, I think I had to go into the ipod settings and turn off the high volume safety feature.

Thanks!
 
The IPOD's output is rather low as well, compared to a CD player.
One trick is to select all the tracks in ITunes and boost the volume of all the tracks in the volume leveling setup.
 
I often use a "discman" for testing equipment. The one I use has a "line out" provision. The output level is lower than a regular C.D. player but just ad a bit more gain (turn the volume up) and it works fine. Just the nature of the beast I guess. Just remember to turn it back down when switching in another source.
 
Something doesn't sound right. MP3 players are designed to use universal headsets and common ear-buds, so any impedence mismatch at the headphone jact should be insignificant.

I've used Zunes and Irivers on serveral receivers running them into any 'line' input and and haven't experienced this problem. Are you SURE you've got the volume turned up on the MP3 player?

Do you have the right cable? We use a Radio Shack cable with an 1/8" headphone plug on one end and two RCA connectors on the other. You can make them, of course.

If the Kenwood has a phono section, how about trying it through the phono inputs.

Another thought, in my truck, I run the MP3 player through the tape deck using one of those cassette converters with a wire and 1/8" headphone plug. Got ours at, can you guess? Radio Shack. Inexpensive and works great.

If you have a cassette player, you might buy the Radio Shack adaptor and try it, before going to the expense of buying a preamp.

Hope I haven't offended by asking simple questions, just want to help. Hope it works out!

piscator
 
Do you have the right cable? We use a Radio Shack cable with an 1/8" headphone plug on one end and two RCA connectors on the other. You can make them, of course.

If the Kenwood has a phono section, how about trying it through the phono inputs.

I've had several mp3 players that have really low output voltage. They can sell them with any efficiency headphones they want to get volume, and there is no standard for output voltage.

If they're getting sound with no hum, I'd bet against it being a cabling issue.

Running it through a phono preamp is a great idea, that is if you want it to be terribly distorted by application of the RIAA equalization curve. The bass will be boosted enormously and the treble cut. The equalization is required because turntable styli cannot track full-amplitude bass. So, they're recorded with heavily attenuated bass regions, and then the EQ curve is applied in reverse as part of the phono preamp.

Another thought, in my truck, I run the MP3 player through the tape deck using one of those cassette converters with a wire and 1/8" headphone plug. Got ours at, can you guess? Radio Shack. Inexpensive and works great.

If you have a cassette player, you might buy the Radio Shack adaptor and try it, before going to the expense of buying a preamp.

This is another option which will work, but will not give the best sound quality. The S/N ratio for a cassette adaptor is between 50-70dB, whereas CD quality is 90-100dB. Big difference. They are cheap, I will grant you that, but you'll get cassette-quality sound. I do this in my truck as well, but with the engine and other noise, it sounds plenty good enough. In my livingroom I wouldn't do it.

There are two solutions which will not degrade the sound:

1) buy an mp3 player that will output line level voltage, enough to meet the input sensitivity of your preamp or

2) beg, borrow, steal or manufacture an op-amp gain stage to put between the mp3 player and preamp. You can make one with about $10 worth of parts. Like this one:

http://www.bobblick.com/techref/projects/preamp/preamp.html
 
There are two solutions which will not degrade the sound:

1) buy an mp3 player that will output line level voltage, enough to meet the input sensitivity of your preamp or

2) beg, borrow, steal or manufacture an op-amp gain stage to put between the mp3 player and preamp. You can make one with about $10 worth of parts. Like this one:

http://www.bobblick.com/techref/projects/preamp/preamp.html

My current Ipod (7th generation) suffers a similar problem. The now defunct 2nd gen Ipod worked fine. Option 2 is very appealing. :yes:

Would someone please start manufacturing these?
I would gladly pay $30 :thmbsp:
IIRC, the Wadia units cost ~$300. Of course, that is an apples to oranges comparison.
 
My MP3 player's headphone output is also a line-level out, controlled by a menu item.

Sometimes I'll forget that I had it hooked up to my amp, will pop in the buds and head out. Then on the bus when I hit play I IMMEDIATELY rip out my earbuds And unplug them simultaneously to prevent damage-- I'm pretty quick, now, but not as quick as an output relay!! :(


Doesn't help much. I use a Sony NW-HD1. It's shiney :D and she's pushing 5 years old, now.
 
I double checked my setup and everything is set as it should be including volume, cable, etc. Does anyone sell any of those homemade preamps? Sounds like it's worth a try. Thanks.
 
Try the mp3 player on a different receiver/amp. I've never had any issues in the past with an MP3 player plugged into my equipment.
 
"Try the mp3 player on a different receiver/amp."

I will try it on my 2004 Denon receiver and I will also try it on my Kenwood KR-2600 that I bought a couple of weeks ago and haven't even unboxed yet.
 
Option 2 is very appealing. :yes:

Would someone please start manufacturing these?
I would gladly pay $30 :thmbsp:
comparison.

Yes, put me on the list for one too. I've been meaning to make one for, oh, about two years now and never have gotten around to it. I'm competent to build one, but my finished product always looks like crap and gets the double thumbs down from my significant other when placed in the livingroom.

Dave
 
Today I tried my iRiver through the 'aux in' on a small Sansui integrated amp and it nearly blew me out of the room. I did notice that it took some 'fiddling' with the iRiver volume to get the best sound.

Dsspear is right about the limitations of the phono input. I was trying to suggest tests to isolate the the Ipod.

I guess the Ipod isn't loud enough for your system. Still seems odd. We run an Ipod through the RCA jacks on our band's PA and I've run iRivers, Zunes, and Sandisks through various receivers. Never had a volume issue. Oh well.

Good Luck! piscator
 
My Sansa Clip + Onkyo TX-4000 seems to work fine.

Not as loud as the FM at same volume position, but it's enough if I turn the receiver volume higher.

How far up can you turn the volume control with the FM playing?

How far up do you turn the volume control with the MP3 playing?

The reason I'm asking is that I've sometimes seen people have an aversion to turning the volume control past a certain point. But, the position of the volume control is not an indication of the power output and doesn't hurt anything to go higher as long as the output is still clean.
 
The reason I'm asking is that I've sometimes seen people have an aversion to turning the volume control past a certain point. But, the position of the volume control is not an indication of the power output and doesn't hurt anything to go higher as long as the output is still clean.

Yes, read the sticky about decibels on this forum... I have an old PDA which I use as an mp3 player (which works great with the huge touch-screen and blue-tooth capability). I have to have the "dangerous volume" limiter turned off and the volume all the way up, and still I need to turn the volume on the amp up substantially. Nothing wrong with having to turn the volume up to 1 or 2 o'clock to get loud, I think we're just used to 10 o'clock being ear-splitting with a 2V source.
 
My Sansa Clip + Onkyo TX-4000 seems to work fine.

Not as loud as the FM at same volume position, but it's enough if I turn the receiver volume higher.

How far up can you turn the volume control with the FM playing?

How far up do you turn the volume control with the MP3 playing?

The reason I'm asking is that I've sometimes seen people have an aversion to turning the volume control past a certain point. But, the position of the volume control is not an indication of the power output and doesn't hurt anything to go higher as long as the output is still clean.

After further testing, your reply sums it up perfectly. I need to crank my receivers to 1/2 volume with the aux/mp3-player to match my FM at about 1/3 volume. So I guess I just need to crank 'er up a bit! A rep for the company that makes the LGB-1 replied to my email and said this is exactly why they made the LGB-1, so that when you switch from one to the other you have a consistent volume level. I probably don't need one though.
 
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