Vintage Sansui vs <$1,000 Modern Amp

I subjectively preferred the sound of my fully restored AU-719 compared to the Rega Brio R, but it wasn't a clear winner. Some would probably prefer the Brio. It's a nice little amp!

My restored Sansui AU-X701 most certainly (IMHO) sounds 'better' than both of them.

I've heard a few of the other amps in the above list, and they all sounded very nice too.

In my personal experience, a well designed modern amp under $1k can absolutely keep up (and in most cases) surpass the outright refinement and sound quality of most vintage amps. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. Just like with vintage audio, there are some exceptional pieces of gear, and a great many more which are middle-of-the-road.

A recapped AU-517, 519, 717, 719 etc is a certainly a very good amp which is capable of going toe-to-toe with many modern amps.

I far prefer the appearance and character of vintage amps though, and part of my enjoyment of these amps is the blood, sweat and tears that goes into a full restoration. I don't get this satisfaction from buying a new amp off a shelf (the same amp that anyone can buy, given sufficient funds).
 
I have heard many new amps including chip amps that sound really nice. The features that distinguish vintage gear from these are; flexible features, build quality, and substantially built power supplies. Also, it's rare that I really crank my systems much unless we're having a party and people want to dance, but when you want effortless power, without much heat dissipation, the vintage gear is superior because it was built to much more stringent standards. Aside from this, when I really listen closely, the vintage has more depth/richness/character.
 
I think it depends on what you are after. I prefer the sound of my vintage gear and my ba3000 is an excellent sounding amp. I have bought or borrowed a variety of modern amps from various manufacturers and liked those amps. Some of those amps had some cool and handy features. They were typically very quiet. However I just couldn't get excited about the way they sounded. Many of them sounded quite good, just not exactly what I prefer. Altho I still run 2 of those "new" amps.

Are they better than a Sansui integrated? In some ways. In others no.
 
For me, it's about the way the old Sansuis are voiced. I've auditioned modern McIntosh integrated amps quite a few times, but they just don't seem to have the kind of "character" I'm looking for with my setup. Also, the early solid-state Sansui models (from like '73 and earlier) are really-good for low-volume listening, and that's a must for me. There's nothing at all wrong with the new Mac stuff, but for $6000+ for an integrated amp, it better knock my socks off. But again, like I said, it comes down to "character" rather than quality. I'm looking for a certain "flavor" with my setup, and they just aren't it.
 
I went through a few modern amps including a nice Acurus. Most of them sounded sterile and I always ended up liking the sound of my Sansui by a large margin.
 
I would actually look at the inflation price of the Sansui (what it would be now, if it was new) and then compare to what is available at that price. If you take the value of $575.00 new for a AU-719 in 1970 (website for price data - http://www.classicaudio.com/value/san/ ) - the value today is about 3500.00. So you are comparing 2 different price points.

Disingenuous to say the least.

At the 3500 dollar price point - there are many that would be as good if not better.

This is always the issue with looking at used, older equipment, people use the price they paid used, not what it was new. Compare apples to apples people.

At this price point you have:

Ayre Acoustics AX-7e: $3500

Exposure 2010S: $1495

Leben CS300: $3395

T+A Power Plant: $3100

Cayin SP-10A: $2195

Harman Kardon HK 990: $2599

Musical Fidelity M3i: $1500

Mystère ia21: $2995

NAD C 375BEE: $1500

Roksan Kandy K2: $1925

Shuguang Audio Classic S300MK: $2150 with Treasure tubes

Simaudio Moon 250i: $1800

Vincent Tubeline SV-236MK: $1995

Arcam Solo Mini: $999

Audio Analogue Crescendo: $995

Denon RCD-N7: $599

Marantz M-CR603: $699

Music Hall a15.2: $499

NAD C316BEE: $380

Outlaw Audio RR2150: $699

Rega Brio-R: $895

There are more out there - not knocking the Sansui at all but you gents haven't done a service to it, comparing it to cheap chip amps.

I am done listing as these are all from the Stereophile recommended buying list from 2012. Any one of these would give the Sansui a run for it's money if you take out the 'romantic bias' that goes with using older equipment.

The reason I asked the question was because my AU-717 & AU-719 were both bought used (within the last two years) and re-capped for a total "all-in" price of <$500.00 ea. (both in mint condition). After seeing and hearing them, my non-vintage owning friends usually ask me a similar question "Do these sound better than a new amp in the $ 500-$1,000 range that I can buy off the shelf with less hassle and get a warranty?". I think that's a valid question and not "Disingenuous to say the least."

I should have been clearer as to the intent of the question. It's not "romantic bias", it's were do you get the most bang for your $500-$1,000 current dollars.

BTW my AU-719 was manufactured in 1980 (not 1970?) so the inflation adjusted price is more like $1,630 not $3,500. If you use 1981 (last year of manufacture) it's $1,477 in today's dollars.
 
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The reason I asked the question was because my AU-717 & AU-719 were both bought used (within the last two years) and re-capped for a total "all-in" price of <$500.00 ea. (both in mint condition). After seeing and hearing them, my non-vintage owning friends usually ask me a similar question "Do these sound better than a new amp in the $ 500-$1,000 range that I can buy off the shelf with less hassle and get a warranty?".

I should have been clearer as to the intent of the question.

BTW my AU-719 was manufactured in 1980 (not 1970?) so the inflation adjusted price is more like $1,630 not $3,500. If you use 1981 (last year of manufacture it is $1,477 in today's dollars).

Yes, notwithstanding the fact that a given number of dollars bought more in 1970 or 1980 compared to today, I think the more practical comparison is "if I have X dollars to spend TODAY, how does a recapped vintage unit compare to buying new?"

As has been pointed out, it kind of depends what you want out of your amp. Like many others here (on a site devoted to vintage gear) I like the appearance, build quality, tone controls and such on my vintage gear that modern amps usually do not offer. But there have been advances in circuit design in modern amps that can and often do provide a cleaner, more refined sound.

It is critical to include the cost of refurbishing/recapping in the price of a vintage unit. Another factor affecting the comparison is the economies of scale that builders of audio gear in the 1970s enjoyed. By comparison, 2-channel audio is a much less mainstream and more specialized market these days, so manufacturers must be able to make a profit while selling a lot fewer of each model they offer. This affects how much build quality and features they can include at a given price point.

I tried to get the best of both worlds (vintage features and build, modern circuit design) by choosing a Sansui AU-D11 II and having it fully recapped. I think I have about $1000 into it at this point, and think it easily compares to modern units at that price (and higher) although I have not done comparisons.
 
As riverrat probably knows, if you waved $1477 or $1630, maybe even $3500 under my nose for my Sansui AU-D11 II I'd tell you to take a walk... :)
 
Without wishing to start an argument, I've owned and ran a Lentek integrated with Proac Tablette speakers and know for a fact that whilst the sound was more than ok, it was no match for the Sansui 1000X and Scandyna A-25's that I run now.
Cleaner, more detailed they may have been, minimalist certainly and reasonably expensive and highly reviewed and recommended but they just didn't do it for me as a long term listen and I never relaxed fully listening to them whereas with the Sui and Scandynas I can listen night and day at any level and get totally immersed into the music without wondering what I'm missing.
Even more amazing my current system with the 1000X, Scandynas, Sansui SC-3300 and SR-212, Philips DVD-963 and Yamaha minidisc cost less than the Lentek alone did.
And I don't even want to discuss the reliability, or lack of it, about the Lentek!
 
For 3500$ (7 to 1 price difference) those new amps better blow the 80s Sansui out of the water. That Sui cost the OP 500$ fully restored to buy.

Are those 3500$ amps 7 times better than the Sansui?
 
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The only thing I dislike about buying vintage is that even if its restored, there are still a lot of other aging parts in it. It's rare that anyone goes through and replaces absolutely everything. Then of course with modern you get a warranty.

Sound quality? That's subjective.
 
They are NOT 7 times more. 1970's dollars to Todays dollars they THE EXACT SAME IN VALUE. THAT IS THE POINT. Is the Sansui that good or are people just waxing poetic because they grew up with them - that is the question.

I didn't know that equal value means that the older equipment gets 7X the break of new equipment.

Not sure where you get the $3,500 from.

Are you saying a $500-$1,000 modern amp can or can't beat a re-capped Sansui AU-719 (that retailed new for $1,400 and now cost $500)? Which one is it, yes or no?
 
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They are NOT 7 times more. 1970's dollars to Todays dollars they THE EXACT SAME IN VALUE. THAT IS THE POINT. Is the Sansui that good or are people just waxing poetic because they grew up with them - that is the question.

I didn't know that equal value means that the older equipment gets 7X the break of new equipment.

I neither have a time machine to go back in 1989 to enjoy the MSRP of my HK6900 or 2599$ to buy its grandson the HK990 today.

Even if I had 2600$ I would buy TWO Threshold SA/6e and suck the power grid of Macedonia.

BTW I used that inflation calculator online and it just crunches numbers. It wont give any free money damn it! :(
 
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Really this comes down to what someone values as "better". Are we talking about price? Sound signature? Looks? Etc.

I have a pair of MC2301's that a friend let me use for a while. They are very nicely built hybrid tube amps. Good build quality, they have quite a bit of power and sound very good. Is it better than my vintage gear? Well, in some ways yes. In others no. Would I buy a set? Probably not. The difference in price vs sound compared to everything else I have does not make them worth the list price to me. Many would disagree and thats fine.

As has been mentioned how to you compare on price? Current purchase price vs current new amp purchase price? Or something else.

In the 1000 dollar range there are a few amps that I feel are decent in comparison to the Sansui integrateds I have. However I think you have to spend considerably more to get an amp that will match the sound signature and quality of an old Sansui.

If you have a couple grand to spend and want a modern amp there are lots out there and many that sound very good (although different) so go for it!
 
I think it depends on the modern amp in question. Some of the newer yamaha and marantz amps (the ki pearl lite for example) sound amazing.
 
Easy - http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/frequently-asked-questions-faqs/ The 575.00 is based on the previous website I linked for MSRP in 1970 (took it as an example - 719 was made from 1968 - 1972 so I too the middle years).

http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php


$575 of 1970 dollars would be worth: $3,463.86 in 2013 from the calculator - THIS IS THE VALUE YOU SHOULD BE COMPARING TO.


No, I am saying that some of these new ones CAN beat a recapped Sansui. Sansui's are nice, don't get me wrong BUT there are some that CAN beat it.

Which exact 3500$ amps will beat the 719 and please elaborate the "beating" part and your personal experience in comparing them to the 719.
 
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