Vintage Thorens TD-165 Turntable for Restoration

Sitrep
I am actually really enjoying the simplicity of the thing - there is a certain degree of elegance in an uncomplicated design. Certainly less to go wrong and easier to fix when it does. Probably why so many of them are going strong to this day. Have done some cleaning and other forums are telling me the motor may just be fine which is why I have held off purchasing one. Most say that a new belt is likely all that is required to get it back up to snuff as it will tighten things up and eliminate the wobble once I tune the suspension as well. The old belt is stretched considerably and really really dry (as shown by tons of rubber residue I cleaned up by the spindle). I should be getting the anti-skate hanger assembly today or tomorrow - the old broken piece popped out no problem at all. Just trying to source the odd sized M2 non-ferrous screws for the headshell and I think I will be off to the races. No doubt this was built before standards were put in place ;)
I have even ordered a stainless steel 45 adapter from Romania to fit the adapter slot on the inner platter. After I cleaned and lubed up the platter bearing assembly it is amazing how long the platter rotates when you spin it up to speed without the drive belt engaged. Tolerances appear real good as well. It is indeed a finely crafted unit. Plinth is in very good shape but is the cheap vinyl (simulated wood) veneer on press-board type which indicates it is a newer model. I can get the wood veneer one relatively cheap as per here (also nearby in North Vancouver):
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/THORENS-TD-1...121136?hash=item2a602bf9b0:g:R20AAOSwqrtWpWSW

That being said I will likely elect to go this route though as it is quite appealing to me (to others, maybe not so much and I get that as we all have our tastes). Even if I don't use the thing with my 10 records, it will look pretty rockin':
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Zarge-chassi...206887?hash=item1a04f35a27:g:bxAAAOSwQJhUh~VD

Only trouble is I am having trouble communicating with the seller (maybe language barrier) as I have sent along several queries over the last couple of days with still no response (even with translated questions). Perhaps he is away or ????? Plan is still to make sure the TT operates and sounds good before going in the direction of significant added expense. The only frustration is having it sit naked on the work bench waiting for all the gizzits to come together and start behaving like a player rather than a boat anchor:p

Good tip on Industrial plastics and paints - will check them out as I haven't tossed the dust cover yet. The short of it all is it will not be a money maker (was never intended to be) as parts are starting to add up and they ain't cheap. The good news is: it will be one less thing in the land fill that shouldn't be there and will surely be appreciated by moi:biggrin:
 
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Ebay has tools to alert potential buyers when a seller is unavailable, so unless you got one of those notices, take them at their word: "If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us." You did, and you're not hearing back. In my book that's a warning sign and I would simply shop elsewhere. At the very least, they should have written back in German to acknowledge your emails while they figure out how to respond in English.

I'm looking at their listing for the white version, which has more photos. Looks like a nightmare to install. No access holes in the bottom, either. Meaning if the springs go out of tune (and they do), you"ll have to reverse the whole process.
 
Well usually ebay sellers take a day or so (at least) to respond ... especially from a hugely different time zone. Germany is 9 hours ahead.
 
bang4buck said:
I'm aware of the time difference, but I stand by what I said. No way to run a business. I'm surprised to see they have a perfect feedback record.
Click to expand...
Pretty easy to get a 100% score if you only sell only one:dunno:

Will give it some time though as I am in no rush at this juncture - gotta make the TT right first...

I also work in a Military Construction Engineering facility with a full team of carpenters who do some work on the side in their own shops. I am betting if I show one of them the picture of what I want and give him my plinth as a template and tell him it needs a removable bottom, that someone could whip up a real smokin' one no problem. That is my backup plan. Buddy does sell the skookum Thorens 3D stainless logo on his site for far less expense (and risk) All I would need are good feet for the thingo_O
 
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While you're waiting on plan "A", I'd research plan "B". Your backup plan might end up being easier in the long run, and you'll likely end up with a better plinth to boot. Coming up with feet is easy; there are any number of vendors that sell all kinds, from inexpensive yet functional, to enormously expensive.
 
Now you're talking! If this works out, you get exactly what you want, and keep it local. I need to get me some friends/coworkers like that...
 
Congrats Tim! Sounds good. You cant hear any surface noise on the video. You did mention setting things up. I assume VTA and tracking force. For the TF, did you do an initial counter weight set up according to the manual? The CW has to be dialed in properly prior to adjusting it for the cart. Btw, the headshell can also be bubble leveled. It will move left/right with some gentle twisting. Cover the stylus first! Did you print and use the thorens baerwald arc protractor from vinylengine? It's a must for properly dialing in the cart. Add the new bottom and feet and you will be rocking!

I highly recommend the feet from Dave at Vinyl Nirvana. He also has plinths btw...

http://vinylnirvana.com/

VV
 
You would set the overhang with a mounting template originally, instead of using a protractor, but those are usually lost. The Analog Dept. probably has the dimensions somewhere. For my TD-150, it's 49mm from the back of the headshell to the needle, but your headshell is different. Nothing wrong with double-checking with a protractor, of course.

Don't count out that rubber mat. They knew what they were doing. It's designed to dampen ringing vibrations in the platter and to keep the record "suspended" like those Ringmats. Problem is you can't easily compare the sound to a felt or cork mat because those are much lighter, so the springs have to be readjusted with each change of mat.
 
VintageVibe said:
Congrats Tim! Sounds good. You cant hear any surface noise on the video. You did mention setting things up. I assume VTA and tracking force. For the TF, did you do an initial counter weight set up according to the manual? The CW has to be dialed in properly prior to adjusting it for the cart. Btw, the headshell can also be bubble leveled. It will move left/right with some gentle twisting. Cover the stylus first! Did you print and use the thorens baerwald arc protractor from vinylengine? It's a must for properly dialing in the cart. Add the new bottom and feet and you will be rocking!
I highly recommend the feet from Dave at Vinyl Nirvana. He also has plinths btw...
http://vinylnirvana.com/
VV
Click to expand...
I did set the Tracking Force by the procedure in the manual and then checked it with a high qaulity digital scale I have. When balanced at zero and then dialed up to 2g as per the tone arm counterweight scale, I subsequently checked it against the zeroed digital scale. Tracking force read 1.86g so I tweaked it up to 2.0g as recommended for the cart and then set the anti-skate. Although I am a stickler for optimizing such things as VTA and overhang etc using a protractor, I did not do this time around as it was merely a rough sound check to ensure the cart was wired up properly and there were no connectivity issues with the new RCAs etc. The current cart will be coming off very soon - as soon as I can source some non-ferrous m2 crews for a new Shure cart. Wasn't aware the headshell could be tweaked in an angular fashion for leveling so will look hard at that as I was concerned with the cart alignment angle relative to the headshell (not wanting to force things in my first go around) - It did look like it was canted a bit relative to the plane of the record which is part of the reason I said I had a whole lot of tweaking still to do in the video....
I am looking at sourcing some pretty cool adjustable CNC feet from China if I go with a local custom plinth.
See
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/4PCS-35-35mm...628263?hash=item4abd025ba7:g:ujQAAOxySoJTR6zG

Unfortunately dealing with US sellers right now like vinylnirvana (as much as I would like to) is a non starter due to exchange rates and shipping costs. As soon as I tick off the part of the order saying I am in Canada it warps to international postage rates that cost as much if not more than the item usually for sale on that site (for small items) - see my rant in this thread about the vinylnirvana plastic 45 rpm adapter that was going to cost me $60 with shipping. I ended up getting a CNC machined stainless one from Romania for $15 less. Not his fault obviously but the exchange rates and shipping rates are retarded right now for anything from the U.S.....

For Bang4buck: I hear you. Right now I had to remove the heavy rubber because the weight plus the record mass was causing the bottom of the platter to rub on the motor post ever so slightly. Changing to a new belt was a huge improvement. Was just a very temp solution using a lighter felt mat until I tinker with the springs properly so I can get repeatable results when I take the bottom of the plinth off and on each time - huge pain. Can't do that until I sort out the undersides because the feet on this one are absolutely horrid. Cracked, out of shape to the point every time I take off the bottom and remount, it is hugely out of level (differently) each time. A trap door would be way better (Hmmmmmm). This is why I need to go to a decent plinth vice this cheap particle board box. I did report on looking at another plinth from the Fatherland. Turns out buddy was contacting me via ebay all along (I just wasn't getting email notices as I assumed I would). Dialogue is now good but am finding that all things in the photos like the 3D steel Thorens Graphic are all extras (of course) - adjustable feet do come with. Holes in bottom correspond with spring adjusters and two options for cabling - one is plate on the back with quick connects for RCA/IEC power (not sure why as it is a two cord power cable) or holes thru the bottom to keep original cords. All things to consider (as well as plan B). Then I just bid on a Technics SL1200 MK2 TT - beginning to thing that, while fun so far, all this tweaking may get old real quick after a while as I will never have the perfect suspension table playing environment so why bother go through all this nause. Will give it the old college try and get to a decision point pretty soon:p

Many thanks Gentlemen, I truly appreciate all the great tips!
 
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Stymied by parts on order:
Local high end audio shop Sound Hounds was a complete and utter fail IMHO when I went there today. Went there with my TT in my truck with good intentions. I went in first though with my Shure Cartridge and Thorens Headshell because it was raining out (with almost nobody in the store) in a rather good mood I would say - that soured pretty quick. Guy at the front desk barely gave me the time of day when I asked if he had any proper M2 bolts to mount my rather unique cart and if I could get some assistance. He merely pulled out a massive tray of thousands of mixed and mismatched unsorted bolts and slapped them down saying here you go, help yourself in a rather rude manner. I even had to ask for a screw driver and proceeded to fumble around in a rather awkward location trying to find something to fit by trial and error - After several minutes I told him finding matched bolts of any size is an impossible task in those conditions (my vision and poor readers I had with me were of no help either). He just kind of grunted. Very rude unresponsive customer service I have to say not even offering to have a tech take a look at it for me (I was willing to pay - he didn't even ask that) - Had he have helped me even just a little bit, showed even a modicum of interest or referred me to a Tech he would have found out I was actually there planning to ask if I could bring in my turntable for service and get it fully up to snuff at my expense with higher caliber cables etc. Instead I just turned around and left wondering how the heck they stay in business???? This is my side of the story and my opinion of course and I am quite sure many have had good experiences with them but I will not likely go back....
Now I have to wait for parts to come from Spain because I am tired of driving around the city in a metric country for a standard metric screw - Wow!


Legs I ordered are:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/nes04-4x-38m...278788?hash=item3ce70abe84:g:IlIAAOSw-jhT~H~T
 
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From a fellow canuck on another site:
The knocking sound coming from the motor is not unusual. The good news is it likely isn't audible through the speakers. It is due to wear in the bearings inside the motor. If you Google a bit you will see kits available on-line which basically add a small thrust bearing on the bottom of the motor, and which are supposed to fix this condition. I don't think your spindle is bent.

Can't help with services in your area I'm afraid (wrong side of the country).
__________________
Alcohol, taken in sufficient quantities, may produce all the effects of drunkenness. - Oscar Wilde
 
Sooooo, time has possibly come to get off the bus from this cool ride (experiment really). I really wanted to see this through but opportunity has once again come knocking and I may not be able to pass this one up. I am also finding that tweak time vs benefit is not what it is cracked up to me as my patience is not geared towards suspension TT's. I do like the convenience of Direct Drive better me thinks. I think I mentioned my Nakamichi buddy/cooworker earlier in this thread. Anyway he mentioned to me at work today that he had a prisitine Technics SL-M3 as per below locked away in his basement for the past 15 years from when he sold gear in Europe (dual voltage model). So, he has decided vinyl is not for him and is selling it to me plus 150 of his little used treasured albums (many are audiophile pressings and collector editions) for what is (I think) a reasonable price. This "MAY" likely necessitate me to give up on this effort to keep wifey off my back ref spending. If I decide to unload this, rest assured van_isle et al that I will list it on the appropriate sites instead of herein ;-)

sl-m3.JPG


I still have to wait for many parts to come in the mail before I get to that decision point as I may simply not go super-mod as plnned on this but get it up to snuff and give it to my son (just aquired a freebee pair of AR8 speakers in wonderful shape) as a giveway from someone local plus my backup Pioneer SA-8500II amp as the backbone for a Vintage system for him when he moves out (maybe soon) but am not anxious for that to happen yet - what a dad eh?
 
Received Shure M97XE cartridge today and hooked it up. Night and day difference to the Stanton 4DQ I have to say. Taken with my BB phone so don't expect from the vid clip for sound:

Going to try out the Technics turntable this weekend me thinks so will likely start another thread on operation and findings with vids and sound.
 
Long story but decided not to buy the Technics (Sniff Sniff). Almost gave up on the Thorens but am back in for a bit. Finally got it sounding real good (Wow!) which was holding me back on new plinth plans. Some soul searching but we'll see...
 
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