Vintage Tuners

Vintage tuners

Readers may find interesting (if a bit long) the saga of owning a vintage (tube) tuner.

Many years ago, my family owned a Scott 350B tuner. It was musical, sensitive, a real pleasure. Most of the tuners I've heard since don't approach it.

My current main system is a mix of vintage and new gear. I drive a McIntosh 240 amp via Cary P7 theater preamp. In any case, I felt the time had come for a vintage tuner. I shopped online and purchased (approx $500) a refurbished 350B from a reputable component restorer. (I won't mention his name; some of you would recognize it, and I'm not blaming him for any of what happened to me.) Sadly, the tuner developed a bad hum within days. Happily, the restorer took it back, found the bad power supply capacitor, and shipped the tuner to back to me.

For about a year, I enjoyed the 350B until it developed a loud tone that obstructed the music. Back to the restorer it went. This time, it required a second refurbishing, including alignment and some new tubes. I was surprised to hear that the tuner needed to be refurbished, at a cost of over $300, given the work that had been done prior to my purchase the year before.

The tuner was returned to me. This time, something like nine months elapsed before another tone began to obstruct the signal, this time in the stereo mode. I contacted the restorer and was told that a transformer (trim) adjustment on my part might solve the problem. It didn't, and I'm now told that the restorer will again look at the tuner with an eye toward repair. I've been cautioned, however: a) if one of those transformer has gone bad, it will be difficult to replace - perhaps impossible; b) these tuners were not built to last more than 10 years. In the restorer's view, only McIntosh and Marantz overbuilt their equipment. Finally, he regards tuners are requiring more maintenance than preamps or amps. (I believe I understood that principle, given the need to maintain tuner alignment.)

Would that I had understood these things when first I purchased the restored 350B. I wish I had understand that restoration was not total, that parts would be difficult to obtain, that the tuner itself might have outlasted its lifetime.

I don't know if this experience applies to any other fan of vintage equipment. My counsel would be, however to consider carefully any move toward a vintage tuner, particularly one with parts no longer available, such as tube gear from the 1960s. Of course, your own experience may differ.

Epilogue: I am about to receive a Magnum Dynalab tuner, analog, but contemporary.
 
As you all know I'm Marantz biased, but it does seem that if you go through an 70's Marantz SS tuner, and do an alignment, they will pretty much last another bunch of years.

Haven't really had much trouble with the SS units. Tubes units may be another deal, in terms of being able to repair as the years go on.

I have always kind of wondered if the "total" restoration is a viable consideration, for 60's tube stuff.

Is there much being made in the way of tube tuners?? Lots of new tube amps, pre amps....
 
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This is the first I have ever heard of a major manufacturer's tuners not being made to last over 10 years. One of the major problems that I have noticed is that as a tube gets towards the end of its life the tuner tends to drift with the tube. You replace the tube with a new one and that can throw that section out of allignment. And some tubes do have a shorter life than others.
Another thing to remember is that you could completely retube a tuner and get it alligned but the tubes will change over say the next 5 to 25 hours and the tuner would need to be realligned.
Having gone through all that the major part failure for me have been the tuning chokes used to set the frequency. Whether or not the choke has actually started to fail or a resister or capasitor in its circuit has gone off specs it just will not stay in allignment.
Typically the things that do fail are small and cheap like a resister but are hard to find. A tech that can trouble shoot the problem will not work cheap and that is where your money goes.
As far as parts go there were thousands of most pieces of gear made and getting a parts unit is not that difficult. Cannabalization can often be the only source for parts.
Everything has a lifespan but the tube gear was built by hand and the good stuff is still far from being throw away today.
Good luck with your SS, I hope it gives you lots of pleasure.
I mean that.
 
I'm with Shane on Marantz SS tuners. I've been using a 2110 daily for over 10 years. I've checked the alignment and its right on after over 20 years.
 
I tend to tease the tubie crowd on tubes Vs. Solid State at times but for things like preamps and amps it's really whatever floats ones boat as there are not that many stages in a typical pre/amp.

However when it come to FM tuners one really needs to look at the long term reliablity, maintenance and alignment needs Vs. the almost maintenace free needs of even a vintage solid state tuner. Maybe the costs and effort is worthwhile for a Marantz 10B, Mac or other hi-end brand tube tuner, I would always recommend a solid state tuner over a tubed one. But that's just me.... :cool:

Lefty
 
If the restorer is telling you the tuner was built to only last 10 years, maybe he's not the best person to work on the tuner. A resistor is a resistor as is a cap is a cap, etc.

However, there is a weakness most tube tuners have. It is the coils. Miller supplied most companies with the coils and sadly Millers tend to be from bad to terrible in terms of long term reliability and stability. This is most evident with the series used in the Dyna FM-1/3 tuners to the point that FVA stopped servicing them because with shipping the coils would go out of alignment or worse. Also, a popular tech routine back then to try to stabilize them was to do the alignment and then seal them in wax which did not do the coils any good.

Scott tuners tend to need a bit more TLC than say Fisher becasue of the design but in reliability terms they are about equal. I suspect the "restoration" is more of a repair or replace only those parts definitely over the spec line. A good restorer will replace items nearing the end of their lifespan or should.

Sherwood wound its own coils escaping the Miller problem and that is one reason why they are more robust.

As for the ss vs tube debate, maintenance and reliability is more an attribute of the design than whether it is ss or tubes. My Sherwood is from the late tube era and unit very recently had all its original tubes. My Mc tuner tuner I've had 10 years and had been gone through by the company I bought it from and has never needed anything.

The only tuner I've ever owned that could not be repaired to new specification is the ss Radio Shack STA2250 tuner that Shack says the part needed to make the scan work is not longer available since it was a custom chip for the unit and there is no substitute. While my Sony receiver and McIntosh ss tuner have never needed work, I suspect the Sony would be harder to find parts for than the Sherwood. The McIntosh to date still is supported by the company.

If I were buying a new tuner today, I too would make it a Magnum. In fact after listening to the MD208 receiver of theirs, I was seriously considering buying it and giving up everything else, well maybe not my McIntosh, Fisher, Sony, JVC, Dynaco but I could get rig of the Grundig, but again it does sound so good.
 
I've been cautioned, however: a) if one of those transformer has gone bad, it will be difficult to replace - perhaps impossible; b) these tuners were not built to last more than 10 years.
I call bullshit. Find someone else to work on your gear.

If this Bozo has a clue, then he knows how to track down parts that aren't supplied by the original manufacturer. Sorry, but a lot of guys out there have the resources and depth of your average Rat Shack salesman (no offense to Rat Shack salesmen, mind you...)

Stuff breaks. Other people like me are in the business of fixing it, no matter what it takes and where I have to go for parts, be it Kansas City, New York, or Helsinki, Finland. If he is becoming tiresome, find someone who is interested in service.
 
Yea, I see that... The 1,500 euro is $1,500 US.

Those are the same ones I got for $200.

Maybe you saw the black version of the ST-8 tuner go for $1,460+_ a week or so ago.

The tuner seems to be the "hot" item, rather than the amps or pre amps.
 
Too much money for me I ve got already a McIntosh mc7300+c39 and need good speakers for it I search for JBL monitor like L300 4331a ...etc or better TAD but it s a lot of money :(

Dom.
 
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