Wharfedale Dentons

[birchoak]

I contributed to a discussion about these unusual speakers on another's thread a few months ago and thought I'd give an update.

These speakers seem to be rather controversial. Some claim they need a lengthy break-in before they will sound good. Others say even after breaking the drivers in the Dentons just don't sound that great.

Here is my experience, based on living with them for about six months:

My pair did not need any breaking in at all. They sounded great out of the box. I am using plain old 16 gauge copper speaker wire, nothing fancy. I play iTunes songs from my MacBook Pro through a Yamaha CR-800, using an unremarkable Monster 1/4" to dual RCA cord. Nothing has been done to the CR-800 other than a thorough cleaning inside and out, including pots and switches. I am using the Dentons with the terminal straps installed, i.e., no bi-wiring here. I tried them bi-wired and could hear no difference. What did make a difference was swapping in a Scott 350R receiver for a few months. It sounded good but nowhere as good as the Yamaha. The CR-800 does not put out a lot of power, maybe 45 watts, but there is something magic about the amplification this particular receiver delivers. I think the Dentons are fussy eaters and will show you, exactly, what they think of your amplifier section. The 350R sounds very good with other speakers but it just doesn't play as well with the Dentons.

Playing iTunes from a (censored) laptop?! How dare he!

I understand your concerns, I do, but the DAC in the Mac does an outstanding job. I also toggle Equalizer on in iTunes and select Loudness and that sweetens the signal. I honestly cannot imagine the source sounding any better than what I'm hearing unless it was live.

So, what do they sound like? Hmm. Bass is solid, punchy and tight, to be expected from such exquisite cabinets (yes, these are cabinets, friends, not lowly boxes). I can hear every instrument clearly, often murmuring "gosh," and "yeah, baby" to myself. The Dentons play as sharp as a razor, even at low listening levels. A lot of speakers sing their best at high volume (Polk LSi9s, I'm talking to you), and that's fine and dandy, but 90% of my listening is at low to moderate volume so speakers in my house need to sing sotto voce, too. The Dentons sound simply fantastic at low listening levels--the best way I can describe it is that all of the sound and dynamics are still there; it's still a very rich listening experience.

Oh, but will they play loud, Mr. Sissy-Pants low-level listening nerd?

Yes, oh yes, my young apprentice, but perhaps you are not ready yet for such power. For these are no ordinary speakers, squire, but something special, indeed. Not only do they sound extraordinary, they are absolutely beautiful (how beautiful are they, you exaggerator? Well, I built a new top for my desk for the sole purpose of accommodating these stunning works of audiophile ambrosia. They are inches away from my face as I write this, and unlike the face I see every day in the mirror, these comely models invite closer scrutiny). And the price they sell for seems like a misprint. I would stress feeding the Denton's quality, clean amplification--I suspect some of the sour reviews on these stems from poor amplifier-speaker chemistry.

Nuff said.

 

[lokerola]

I contributed to a discussion about these unusual speakers on another's thread a few months ago and thought I'd give an update.

These speakers seem to be rather controversial. Some claim they need a lengthy break-in before they will sound good. Others say even after breaking the drivers in the Dentons just don't sound that great.

Here is my experience, based on living with them for about six months:

My pair did not need any breaking in at all. They sounded great out of the box. I am using plain old 16 gauge copper speaker wire, nothing fancy. I play iTunes songs from my MacBook Pro through a Yamaha CR-800, using an unremarkable Monster 1/4" to dual RCA cord. Nothing has been done to the CR-800 other than a thorough cleaning inside and out, including pots and switches. I am using the Dentons with the terminal straps installed, i.e., no bi-wiring here. I tried them bi-wired and could hear no difference. What did make a difference was swapping in a Scott 350R receiver for a few months. It sounded good but nowhere as good as the Yamaha. The CR-800 does not put out a lot of power, maybe 45 watts, but there is something magic about the amplification this particular receiver delivers. I think the Dentons are fussy eaters and will show you, exactly, what they think of your amplifier section. The 350R sounds very good with other speakers but it just doesn't play as well with the Dentons.

Playing iTunes from a (censored) laptop?! How dare he!

I understand your concerns, I do, but the DAC in the Mac does an outstanding job. I also toggle Equalizer on in iTunes and select Loudness and that sweetens the signal. I honestly cannot imagine the source sounding any better than what I'm hearing unless it was live.

So, what do they sound like? Hmm. Bass is solid, punchy and tight, to be expected from such exquisite cabinets (yes, these are cabinets, friends, not lowly boxes). I can hear every instrument clearly, often murmuring "gosh," and "yeah, baby" to myself. The Dentons play as sharp as a razor, even at low listening levels. A lot of speakers sing their best at high volume (Polk LSi9s, I'm talking to you), and that's fine and dandy, but 90% of my listening is at low to moderate volume so speakers in my house need to sing sotto voce, too. The Dentons sound simply fantastic at low listening levels--the best way I can describe it is that all of the sound and dynamics are still there; it's still a very rich listening experience.

Oh, but will they play loud, Mr. Sissy-Pants low-level listening nerd?

Yes, oh yes, my young apprentice, but perhaps you are not ready yet for such power. For these are no ordinary speakers, squire, but something special, indeed. Not only do they sound extraordinary, they are absolutely beautiful (how beautiful are they, you exaggerator? Well, I built a new top for my desk for the sole purpose of accommodating these stunning works of audiophile ambrosia. They are inches away from my face as I write this, and unlike the face I see every day in the mirror, these comely models invite closer scrutiny). And the price they sell for seems like a misprint. I would stress feeding the Denton's quality, clean amplification--I suspect some of the sour reviews on these stems from poor amplifier-speaker chemistry.

Nuff said.

Nice write up. They are handsome speakers and I've been tempted more than once to order a pair.

 

[imral3]

Nice looking speakers (had to google them). I'm glad you're enjoying them!

 

[chrisr2020]

"These speakers seem to be rather controversial. Some claim they need a lengthy break-in before they will sound good. Others say even after breaking the drivers in the Dentons just don't sound that great."

I have owned a lot of speakers and lately played with Elac UB5, LS50s, Denton, and B&W 601.
I think both camps are right.
They take a lenghty break-in before they sound much better, but objectively, they do not have the midrange clarity, imaging capabilities and soundstage depth of the UB5s or LS50, even compared to my 20 years old DM 601s.
Subjectively, they sound so smooth, sweet, easy on the ears, well balanced between gentle treble and decent dynamics, and imaging is not all that bad.

I have owned the Dentons for 3 years now, and they are driven by a marantz pm-8400. For the money, they are a keepers! among others of course.

 

[fsdaron]

I had a pair and sent them back. Just didn't do it for me. My Zenith 49CZ903's in open baffles creamed them. YMMD

 

[F1nut]

I contributed to a discussion about these unusual speakers on another's thread a few months ago and thought I'd give an update.

These speakers seem to be rather controversial. Some claim they need a lengthy break-in before they will sound good. Others say even after breaking the drivers in the Dentons just don't sound that great.

Here is my experience, based on living with them for about six months:

My pair did not need any breaking in at all. They sounded great out of the box. I am using plain old 16 gauge copper speaker wire, nothing fancy. I play iTunes songs from my MacBook Pro through a Yamaha CR-800, using an unremarkable Monster 1/4" to dual RCA cord. Nothing has been done to the CR-800 other than a thorough cleaning inside and out, including pots and switches. I am using the Dentons with the terminal straps installed, i.e., no bi-wiring here. I tried them bi-wired and could hear no difference. What did make a difference was swapping in a Scott 350R receiver for a few months. It sounded good but nowhere as good as the Yamaha. The CR-800 does not put out a lot of power, maybe 45 watts, but there is something magic about the amplification this particular receiver delivers. I think the Dentons are fussy eaters and will show you, exactly, what they think of your amplifier section. The 350R sounds very good with other speakers but it just doesn't play as well with the Dentons.

Playing iTunes from a (censored) laptop?! How dare he!

I understand your concerns, I do, but the DAC in the Mac does an outstanding job. I also toggle Equalizer on in iTunes and select Loudness and that sweetens the signal. I honestly cannot imagine the source sounding any better than what I'm hearing unless it was live.

So, what do they sound like? Hmm. Bass is solid, punchy and tight, to be expected from such exquisite cabinets (yes, these are cabinets, friends, not lowly boxes). I can hear every instrument clearly, often murmuring "gosh," and "yeah, baby" to myself. The Dentons play as sharp as a razor, even at low listening levels. A lot of speakers sing their best at high volume (Polk LSi9s, I'm talking to you), and that's fine and dandy, but 90% of my listening is at low to moderate volume so speakers in my house need to sing sotto voce, too. The Dentons sound simply fantastic at low listening levels--the best way I can describe it is that all of the sound and dynamics are still there; it's still a very rich listening experience.

Oh, but will they play loud, Mr. Sissy-Pants low-level listening nerd?

Yes, oh yes, my young apprentice, but perhaps you are not ready yet for such power. For these are no ordinary speakers, squire, but something special, indeed. Not only do they sound extraordinary, they are absolutely beautiful (how beautiful are they, you exaggerator? Well, I built a new top for my desk for the sole purpose of accommodating these stunning works of audiophile ambrosia. They are inches away from my face as I write this, and unlike the face I see every day in the mirror, these comely models invite closer scrutiny). And the price they sell for seems like a misprint. I would stress feeding the Denton's quality, clean amplification--I suspect some of the sour reviews on these stems from poor amplifier-speaker chemistry.

Nuff said.

It appears you were trying to drive the Polk LSi9's, which are 4 ohm nominal and dip down to 2 ohms with low power sources that are not rated to drive 4 ohm loads. You did not have a good match between power source and speaker, which is not the speaker's fault.

 

[birchoak]

It appears you were trying to drive the Polk LSi9's, which are 4 ohm nominal and dip down to 2 ohms with low power sources that are not rated to drive 4 ohm loads. You did not have a good match between power source and speaker, which is not the speaker's fault.

I was driving the LSi9's with a Proton D1200 power amplifier, which is capable of over 1600 watt dynamic RMS power bursts into 2 ohms, per channel. Is that enough power?

I also mated them with a Harmon Kardon Citation 22 power amplifier, rated at 200 watts RMS continuous power per channel. Is this is enough power, or should I have bridged the Citation to 1000 watts mono?

Link to dyno test of Proton D1200:

 

[F1nut]

I don't know what else I can say about your experience other than it wasn't typical.

 

[birchoak]

Update, March 24, 2019:

The Dentons continue to please the eye and warm the ears, but I did find their limits with some of my more, ah, intense music. They do not get along so well with Moby, at least some of his work that dips down to those deep notes only blue whales can hear. The little guys act like they just got the wrong take-out order: "Huh? I can't eat this! We're bringing this back!" This is to be expected with 5" woofers and a cabinet small enough to take backpacking. And they may still be "breaking in," although they sound no different to my ears now than they did when I first hooked them up. So yeah, they're small speakers, no way around that, but for most music they will kick just fine and as I type this, a wonderful aria from my favorite classical FM station is drifting out and soundly simply lovely. They are probably best suited to classical, jazz, early pop music, and the like; intense electronica that dives into the lowest bass will not make them happy.

They are so beautiful, and so compact, that I cannot imagine even the fussiest spouse finding fault with them. Aforementioned, binding posts are premium quality and offset from each other in such a way that facilitates a clean hook up. And that veneer goes all the way around to the back, to the bottom of the cabinet, and even across the front baffle. Much more work. They look as good with the grills off as they do with the grills on and no, I hear no difference naked/clothed (the speakers, not me; that test is TBA).

 

[birchoak]

Update: Yes, the Dentons are fussy eaters. I would call them true "audiophile" speakers, meaning they need to be matched with the right amplification to sound their best. Right now, that best is a JVC VR-5551, with the amazing S.E.A. (Sound Effect Amplifier) section. The SEA looks like a cheesy graphic equalizer but it is decidedly not; think of five solid tone controls instead of the usual bass and treble. Imagine being able to fine-tune the signal going to your finicky speakers, and I mean really fine-tune.

I think the Dentons profit from some decent wattage (here it's 50 old-school watts), as well. And I suppose they're still "breaking in," if that sort of thing is to be believed. I don't know how much a Kevlar woofer can break in.

Again, these little babies are small enough to perch right on your desk/table, thus ensuring your noggin is in the sweet spot and that you continually appreciate the incredible labor and materials that went into the cabinets. Without a doubt, the best cabinets I've ever seen housing a pair of drivers. Totem Dreamcatchers are a very close second.

 

[birchoak]

Yet another update:
Because these are audiophile speakers, if there are any issues with your amp, the original recording, or your source, you're going to hear them. In my last post I praised the sound I was getting out of them with a rather old JVC VR-5551. I began to suspect the Dentons for lousy bass on certain songs, then realized I needed to play with the numerous tone controls on the 5551.

First, I shut off the robust loudness button--big improvement right off the bat. I don't recall the exact frequency boosts the loudness button delivers, but it's significant and definitely not a plus with these speakers. They just don't know what to do with it and it's not necessarily their fault.

Next, I dialed the SEA EQ settings down a few notches, further reducing bass. This also helped and I cranked them while I did a rowing workout and was quite happy with the sound.

I wondered if maybe these little guys needed to be bi-wired to attain their full potential, and spent some time crafting said wires. Nope, absolutely no difference whatsoever. None, but I'm a hi-fi nut, not an audiophile.

I thought maybe they needed to be decoupled from the desk top, although it's thick (2") and solid (pine staging plank), so I whipped up some little stands for them with those brass spikes. Nope, no difference that I could hear.

I pulled the Dentons as far from the wall as I could and did not toe them in slightly, as I thought perhaps the bass was getting rolled off the left speaker and into the corner. No, that didn't really change things, either. This is one of the problems many of us face; i.e, we don't have big enough rooms for proper speaker setup. I reckon these guys would sound their best on heavy stands filled with lead shot, placed at least three feet from the walls behind them, and amplified with some powerful tube equipment. They are not bass monsters and never will be, but will play very loudly. I'm going to swap the JVC out and try something else, perhaps my rebuilt Sansui 800, and hear what happens.

They continue to dazzle my eyes; indeed, they are the prettiest speakers I've ever owned and the cabinets are the stoutest I've ever rapped knuckles on. There is absolutely no give and no wife on earth could complain about their looks. Initially, I thought the 100 hour break-in period was bunk. As time goes by, I realize that despite my many listening hours I'm still not up to that and perhaps something made from Kevlar does, indeed, need a lot of time to wear in. There's also something to be said for expectations: if you've been cranking AC/DC on a pair of ADS L620s with 10" woofers, the 5" woofers in the tiny Dentons can't compete--it's an unfair comparison. And while the JVC is as well tuned and restored as I could get it, I suspect the Dentons are sucking up all 50 watts the 5551 is putting out and asking for more. They do sound quite different with each receiver I have them hooked up to, and that's not a bad thing.

 

[F1nut]

Ditch the receivers and EQ. Get a high current integrated or separates with a high current power amp.

 

[darkblue94]

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

 

[birchoak]

Update to updated update:
I tried the Sansui 800 and found no difference in sound. I dug out a Sony STR-GS80ES that was languishing in the cellar, re-installed the binding post plates (back to no bi-wire), took the speakers off the spiked stands, and returned them to their toed-in, backed-up-to-the-wall positions (which really is a necessity as I need the desk space to do architectural drawings, etc.).

Well, that's more like it. The 80ES looks like BPC but was actually Sony's last stand for two-channel sound: 110 watts RMS, true 4 ohm capability, massive toroidal transformer, huge filter caps, and specs that rival a Playboy Playmate's. Looks like you guys are right: these little guys need lots of clean power to sound their best, and although I could mate the Proton D1200 to them, I save that for the bigger speakers for when I really need to punish my neighbors. But I hear you and I believe you. Oddly enough, the Sony doesn't sound good with any of my other speakers---it sounds too bright and lacks that classic bass I'm addicted to. But it's playing very well with the Dentons and it demonstrates the need for proper equipment matching. I feel like I'm hearing the strengths of the Dentons now and bass, while not subterranean, is strong and punchy.

 

[birchoak]

Another way to look at the Wharfedale Dentons: they're like a high-end sports car. They need clean, high-octane fuel. They are highly responsive, with razor-sharp handling, and that takes some getting used to.

 

[Sndsrtaud]

I may have mentioned this before. I bought a pair of 89th Anniv Dentons when Music Direct was clearing them out. I was using them for a bedroom system. I was surprised at the fine cabinetry they had. I hooked them up to my trusty Yammie CA-800 and Teac HP-600 CDP and proceeded with the break in. After a hundred hours or so I started some critical listening. Again, I was surprised at the quality of the sound. For $500??? Simply amazing!! As I was getting back into audio after a 10 year hiatus (we adopted 4 kids (6-11) with "baggage" during that time, I thought I'd go for inexpensive gear. Well,in the past I had some pricey stuff and got spoiled. The Dentons were great but lacked that last bit of resolution I had frown accustomed to. I ended up giving them along with the CA800 and CDP to my son who was going away to school.

In the meantime, I bought a Rega Saturn-R, Elex-R and Dynaudio Focus 110- an excellent monitor.

On a recent visit I made I took some time to listen to the system. My jaw dropped. Were these the same speakers. More bass and extended highs with better resolution. No, he wasn't going to give them back....

Anyway, my point is the Dentons take a lonnggg time to sound their best.

 

[birchoak]

S, thank you for telling me that. I was this close to selling them. I just built a pair of Paul Carmody's Classix IIs and they walk all over the Dentons in every category except looks and cabinetry. 100 hours is a really, really long time, and I'll bet your son was cranking some lively music through them--that had to have helped. And maybe the different listening environment? The Dentons have the most beautiful, well-made cabinets I've ever seen on just about anything, let alone a stereo speaker. I'm a finish carpenter and I know what I'm looking at. The labor alone on the cabinets is worth $500 (here in the US, anyways).

Ok, I'll give them more time. Guess those Kevlar woofers are really, really stiff.

P.S. I think it's awesome that you adopted four kids! People like you renew my faith in humanity.
P.S.S. Equally awesome to (a) send a kid to college and (b) bequeath upon him a CA-800, a pair of Dentons, and what sounds like a very nice CD player.

 

[birchoak]

I'm re-reading this thread and I'm laughing out loud at my repeated attempts to "work with" and understand these speakers. At the very least, it's been fun discussing them and figuring out ways to wake them up. I don't recall what I paid for them exactly, but it wasn't $500. If you keep checking in at Music Direct the price sometimes drops. A lot. I want to say I paid $350, with free shipping. They were a no-brainer at that price.

 

[darkblue94]

I'm re-reading this thread and I'm laughing out loud at my repeated attempts to "work with" and understand these speakers. At the very least, it's been fun discussing them and figuring out ways to wake them up. I don't recall what I paid for them exactly, but it wasn't $500. If you keep checking in at Music Direct the price sometimes drops. A lot. I want to say I paid $350, with free shipping. They were a no-brainer at that price.

I remember when the dropped the price to $399 for a short period.

 

[birchoak]

Still another update: This is like that really beautiful girl you keep breaking up with, but then you find a picture of her and call her up again. The Dentons have been back in their boxes for a few months now and I don't miss them. I will either give them to my uncle or sell them. This doesn't mean they aren't good speakers, just not good for my ears. What with my bass knob and loudness switch fetish, I might have some sort of hearing deficit, to be sure. If so, I've had it most of my life, LOL. Then again, maybe I've only listened to them for 90 hours and those last ten are what they need. Maybe after 100 hours your ears break in to the sound. Damned beautiful speakers, though.