Wharfedale Owners Thread

Hello for you, what capacators is better for the tweeter super 3"


I just happened to be viewing my email when this post arrived.

Metallized polypropylene capacitors are quite satisfactory and can be purchased for as little as a few dollars apiece. Film and foil types will cost about $20 to $40 apiece if one is "into" esoteric components. Parts Express has quite an inventory. https://www.parts-express.com/cat/crossover-capacitors/292

Another type is the oil filled "bathtub" variety used as motor start/run capacitors. They usually come in an aluminum shell, can, casing. However, these are not readily found at audio dealers. They're called "bathtub" because initially they had that shape but now they come in cylindrical form also. If your preference leans in their use, they can be found at motor repair shops and heating & air conditioning parts/repair places.

Electrolytics should be avoided.

For a Super 3, typically 11 to 15 ohms, capacitor values of 2uF, 3uF and 4uF will filter at about 5000hz, 4000hz and 3000hz, respectively, at a slope of 6 dB per octave. If you are replacing such a capacitor in an existing vintage system, use the original capacitance value.
 
Soon I'll begin restoration of my SFB3 Warwick Customs. Information on replacing surrounds for these seems to be widely unavailable and I'm still researching options there. I intend to make a new forum post to document the process. Has anyone hear worked on the old porous foam surrounds and would like to message with me?
 
I have the same problem with my sfb/3. And the cabinet is in nice shape. If I could get them refoamed, I would be very happy!
 
The foam surrounds can be replaced with foam obtained from The Foam Factory, http://www.thefoamfactory.com/opencellfoam/charcoal-R.html


I've used this with great success on many foam surround Wharfies. I would recommend using a wood glue, white or tan as I haven't tested this foam's behavior with organic adhesives. Some foams are readily dissolved with some organic adhesives. Besides, the wood glue has a longer setting time which gives one the time to fiddle with the position of the foam if necessary.


I would also recommend shimming the voice coil in a position such that the spider is flat. This will also prevent the cone and coil from being skewed.


I believe the SFB designs use a 12" woofer, a 10" midrange and a super 3, probably labelled as the SFB3 although I seem to recall reading a post somewhere describing an SFB with a W15FS. GangTwanger is the expert on this as he seems to know where and when various Wharfedale systems were designed as well as the drivers used. My forte is in the technical arena.


A cardboard ring used as a template for cutting the foam annulus is recommended. The annulus can be either two half rings or a full ring, the former having been used when foam is in limited supply. If you purchase the foam mentioned above, this will not be the case.


For the 12", the annulus diameters are O.D. = 296 mm; I.D. = 240 mm. (11 + 21/32; 9 + 7/16 inches, resp.)

For the 15", the annulus diameters are O.D. = 349 mm; I.D. = 269mm. (13 + 3/4; 10 + 19/32 inches, resp.)


You may find some interesting info in my website Wharfedale pages.

http://www.ln271828.net/wharfedale.html


Feel free to PM/message me if necessary.

Robert.
 
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Robert, thank you sooo much! I will be in touch

The foam surrounds can be replaced with foam obtained from The Foam Factory, http://www.thefoamfactory.com/opencellfoam/charcoal-R.html


I've used this with great success on many foam surround Wharfies. I would recommend using a wood glue, white or tan as I haven't tested this foam's behavior with organic adhesives. Some foams are readily dissolved with some organic adhesives. Besides, the wood glue has a longer setting time which gives one the time to fiddle with the position of the foam if necessary.


I would also recommend shimming the voice coil in a position such that the spider is flat. This will also prevent the cone and coil from being skewed.


I believe the SFB designs use a 12" woofer, a 10" midrange and a super 3, probably labelled as the SFB3 although I seem to recall reading a post somewhere describing an SFB with a W15FS. GangTwanger is the expert on this as he seems to know where and when various Wharfedale systems were designed as well as the drivers used. My forte is in the technical arena.


A cardboard ring used as a template for cutting the foam annulus is recommended. The annulus can be either two half rings or a full ring, the former having been used when foam is in limited supply. If you purchase the foam mentioned above, this will not be the case.


For the 12", the annulus diameters are O.D. = 296 mm; I.D. = 240 mm. (11 + 21/32; 9 + 7/16 inches, resp.)

For the 15", the annulus diameters are O.D. = 349 mm; I.D. = 269mm. (13 + 3/4; 10 + 19/32 inches, resp.)


You may find some interesting info in my website Wharfedale pages.

http://www.ln271828.net/wharfedale.html


Feel free to PM/message me if necessary.

Robert.
 
My midsIMG_7792.JPG and tweeters on one of my warfedale 90s desparetly need new felt surrounds. Where do I even buy such a thing and is there a thread on how to replace them? I have done dozens of rubber,, but FELT??
 
My midsView attachment 920639 and tweeters on one of my warfedale 90s desparetly need new felt surrounds. Where do I even buy such a thing and is there a thread on how to replace them? I have done dozens of rubber,, but FELT??

Ducati:

Felt can be purchased at fabric stores such as Joann's and hobby shops. Joann's has the stuff in large rolls sold by the yard and it comes in all sorts of colors. Hobby shops may have it in much smaller pieces but it's not expensive so, I'd recommend Joann's.

I've used the stiff a lot. You may find some helpful info in my Wharfedale web pages. http://www.ln271828.net/wharfedale.html

If you need any further help, please don't hesitate to PM me.

Robert
 
Ducati:

Felt can be purchased at fabric stores such as Joann's and hobby shops. Joann's has the stuff in large rolls sold by the yard and it comes in all sorts of colors. Hobby shops may have it in much smaller pieces but it's not expensive so, I'd recommend Joann's.

I've used the stiff a lot. You may find some helpful info in my Wharfedale web pages. http://www.ln271828.net/wharfedale.html

If you need any further help, please don't hesitate to PM me.

Robert

Nice! :beerchug::rockon::hug:
 
Picked up a pair of Wharfedale Glendale 3s. but cant find any info on them on the net, like what year they where made. One of the tweeters was duff, managed to replace it with tweeter from Maplins for £2.95. Had to alter the case but it works fine. The wooden cases are in great condition. 20170503_192212.jpg
 
Hi Everyone

Time to step into the Tardis and go back!

I posted this in the 'Speakers' forum and got a lot of help before being guided to this one for help.

I have two Wharfedale W3s. I say 2 and not a pair because one may have been modded (or not).

Now for the history bit you can ignore if you wish: I was given them in around 1969 by a gentleman called John Coombs. He was the son of a motor dealer in Guildford. My recollection was of a very dapper and self-assured man. My father, a gifted cabinet maker, had made some furniture for him and he called in from time to time to order more. I even vaguely remember delivering some to his charming old house in Shamley Green. Anyway, I was a spotty teenager, he was in his late 40s. Although his fame was for racing Jaguars, I'm sure I remember him driving in one day in a Mercedes. He'd left the ignition on and the coil had overheated (so he said) and it wouldn't start. I thought it quite amusing; he was furious. I was told he had inherited a Jaguar dealership from his father in an area of Guildford called St. Catherines. Most of the people I knew that knew him did not seem to like him. Allegedly he would drop into the workshop from time to time, sack anyone who displeased him and march off leaving the workshop manager to re-assure the offender that he wasn't sacked and that life would return to normal once John had left. They all felt he was a playboy living off his father's effort at developing the business. I thought it was great he gave me the speakers. When the UK Government took over Jaguar he changed to a BMW dealership but they were too controlling for John so I believe he sold up and went to live in Monaco. I used the W3s (without properly appreciating them) for several years before I put them into storage. 40+ years on and my youngest son, now a teenager himself, motivated me to get them out. I needed to let him hear a good sound and not a blue-tooth connected iTunes mp3 through a boombox.

Sadly one bass driver didn't function. I took the back off, all seemed in order and it suddenly worked - until that is I put the back back on. I've now set about trying to work out exactly what I've got and what I should do to get them working.

So here goes:

Speaker 1 seems original and works. Its serial number on the plate is 4415. It has a WLS 12 bass driver, a 5" mid-range and a Super 3 tweeter. It is controlled by 2 Clarostat 50Ω Linear potentiometers; one labelled 'Treble' and the other 'Middle'. It has a green wire coil and 2 capacitors: A Hunts brand 12µF 150V D.C. Wkg. metallised and what I assume to be a PIO 2µF 400V DC TEST one. I attach a wiring diagram I have drawn (note that the pot connections I have drawn are correct in so far as there are three solder points - left hand middle and right hand. I have drawn the diagram such that the blue and grey wires are the one that are soldered to the middle connection on each of the two pots). It was suggested on the Speaker forum that I might have drawn it wrongly but I haven't; this is how it is. There is another image on a Japanese website that is identical https://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/gakuyujp/63028861.html so it would seem to be correct. Without disconnecting anything, my meter shows: approx 10Ω across all drivers irrespective of rotary linear pot positions.

Speaker 2 may have been modified (prior to me and thus prior to 1969!). It has lost it serial number plate. It has the same speakers. It is controlled by one Clarostat but the other has been replaced by a 6-step potentiometer. They are labelled 'Treble' and 'Bass' respectively. There are two capacitors but they are red cylindrical ones. One is CCL brand 12µF 50V DC WKG REVERSIBLE WG 74 RAS B4 and the other a physically much smaller CCL 2µF 50V. Without disconnecting anything my meter shows: High range driver 11.6Ω. The mid driver 8.6Ω. The bass driver varies depending on the position of the 6-step pot: 0.4Ω, 6.7Ω, 10.4Ω, 18.1Ω, 40.4Ω, 108kΩ.

Questions:

1/ Is speaker 1 original and are the caps both still likely to be OK? How can I test for that?

2/ Is speaker 2 original or should I try and get those caps replaced and a Clarostat pot to replace the 6-step or is the labelling difference ('Bass' instead of 'Middle') indicative that it is an original W3 but just different? I should add that there are no residual screw holes to show that there was ever a fixing bracket as there is for the large rectangular PIO capacitor in speaker 1???

I am going to remove a wire and connect up the bass driver in speaker 2 alone to see if it is still ok? It worked years ago and once when the back was off in the last few days so I don't think it is the cause of it not working but I'll check.

I attach some images and would appreciate any help you can give.Spkrs 1 & 2 W3 potentiometer 2.jpg Spkr 2 W3 6-step 12uF  large capacitor.jpg Spkr 2 6-Step pot xover set up.JPG Spkr 1 Working spkr cap 2 .JPG Spkr 1 Working spr xover set up.JPG Spkr 1 W3 Wiring Diagram (wkg).jpg Spkr 2 W3 Wiring Diagram (6-step pot).jpg Wharfedale_CabinetModels_1962_Page_4.jpg Wharfedale_CabinetModels_1962_Page_1.jpg Wharfedale_CabinetModels_1962_Page_7.jpg
 
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All the electrolytic capacitors ( Hunts and CCL ) should be replaced with modern polypropylene types ,100 volt rating or higher. The switches and the pots should be treated with a suitable contact cleaner aerosol spray. Given the age of the speakers, I would suggest that care be taken not to overload them, as the voice coils have a tendency to unwind as a result of the bonding glue , failing with age. The cone surrounds may also need attention.
 
The Airedale Crossover.

index.php
 
All the electrolytic capacitors ( Hunts and CCL ) should be replaced with modern polypropylene types ,100 volt rating or higher. The switches and the pots should be treated with a suitable contact cleaner aerosol spray. Given the age of the speakers, I would suggest that care be taken not to overload them, as the voice coils have a tendency to unwind as a result of the bonding glue , failing with age. The cone surrounds may also need attention.

It would be a grave mistake to use polypropylenes to replace electrolytics. Been there, done that, and went back to electrolytics. There are many threads on this subject. Don't look at the older ones, but the newer ones. We've learned from our mistakes, I hope. Like for like, unless you are planning on designing your own speakers, in which case, do what you please.
 
Post # 956 disregards the fact that the levels of the tweeter and midrange units are independently, adjustable. In this case the better performance of polypropylene capacitors is well worthwhile. I do agree that modern bi polar electrolytic capacitors are far better than those early types that many British manufacturers were obliged to use. Often the crimped wire ends became intermittent and the sonic performance was equivalent to polarised electros used back to back.
 
Post # 956 disregards the fact that the levels of the tweeter and midrange units are independently, adjustable. In this case the better performance of polypropylene capacitors is well worthwhile. I do agree that modern bi polar electrolytic capacitors are far better than those early types that many British manufacturers were obliged to use. Often the crimped wire ends became intermittent and the sonic performance was equivalent to polarised electros used back to back.

True, you can adjust the volume with the l-pads. If you are keeping the l-pads then I suppose using the l-pads you could adjust the system to be balanced. I think, though, ultimately you want to do away with the l-pads. This is the dilemma I am currently faced with in my W90s - I have polypropylene capacitors on the midrange drivers and the midrange drivers are now awfully loud, causing them to sound terrible. The l-pads are no longer functioning 100% so, do I replace the l-pads and keep the poly caps, or do I do away with the l-pads and go with electrolytics?
 
The pots used in the Wharfedale crossovers are 50 ohm ww standard types. It might be better to fit 8 ohm ' L' pads (15 ohm ones are rare items) to both the tweeter and the midrange drivers for a more constant xover freq. point. I am not certain of the cct. of the W3 xover network but I believe it may be the same as the NW 10 quarter section, 3 way, shown in the booklet, "More About Loudspeakers" , by G.A. Briggs; with the only exception being a 4 mFd capacitor is used to feed the tweeter rather than a 2 mFd cap.
 
IMG_8020.jpg After a full restore of a pair of w90s, with proper oil caps, I find the bass really lacking. In addition, they seem to be 'clipping'.. . as in working real hard, but not producing a solid bass, with some clicking noises. The surrounds on my woofers seemed in great shape with the linen looking fabric that you can actually see though. My questions are ,,
1. would the bass be tighter if I sealed the surrounds like KLH type cloth surrounds? I mean , why have one bass chamber airtight if you can literally breath through the woofers surround??

2. I only listened to the speakers a short time before tearing into them and I do not recall to have the problems listed above. there was some clicking noise, but thought it to be from a mid range, which is no longer there. SO, is it the expensive oil caps I purchased and installed? here is a pic of that installation.

what you see in the pic is three 8 uf in parallel for the 24 uf oem cap,, and then a single 8uf for the oem 8uf cap.

ANY HELP OR COMMENTS GREATLY APPRECIATED.
 
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