Wharfedale Super 12 ID help.

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by ghbrian, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. ghbrian

    ghbrian AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Washington Puget Sound
    I removed this Wharfedale Super 12 from a speaker cabinet I bought. I think it is a Super 12 CS/AL but I am not 100%. Any knowledgable person out there that can confirm or correct my assumption.

    Regards

    super 12 1.jpg super 12 2.jpg super 12 3.jpg super 12 4.jpg
     

     

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  2. loose ends

    loose ends Well-Known Member

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    548
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    near St. Louis
    I got one also. I bought some beautiful cabinets and one had the speaker mounted in it.
     
  3. ghbrian

    ghbrian AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Location:
    Washington Puget Sound
    No opinions?
     
  4. klipschorn

    klipschorn Klipschorn

    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Chandler, Arizona
    This speaker dates to the early to mid sixties. The original Super 12's were labeled as Super 12 FS/AL, meaning foam surround/aluminum voice coil. Later, the Super 12 CS/AL was the same with the exception of its having a cloth surround, which was flat, not a half roll like this model.

    The label dates the unit from the sixties. It is a SUPER 12 and all SUPER 12's with the "whizzer" cone were labeled as SUPER 12 (FS,CS,RS/DD, meaning double diaphragm. While this surround (annulus) is cloth, it's called a half roll. Wharfedale used that terminology in many units, such as the W15FS, CS, and RS, meaning foam surround, cloth surround which was a 1/16th inch thick felt and roll surround, respectively.

    The white numbers on the back side of the cone refer to 30hz fs and the date of manufacture, Feb. 1963. I have no idea to what the c/12 refers. I would hate to think it means a 12 inch cone as that should be obvious.

    For more on those good ol' Wharfedales with the red magnets, see my Wharfedale pages. https://www.ln271828.net/wharfedale.html

    Robert
     
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  5. ghbrian

    ghbrian AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Washington Puget Sound
    Robert

    Thank you for your detailed explanation. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.

    Regards, Brian
     
  6. ghbrian

    ghbrian AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    On the rolled cloth surround, it looks like it is needing to be re-doped, as light can be seen through it. What is the suggester method of retreating the cloth?
     

     

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  7. klipschorn

    klipschorn Klipschorn

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    Location:
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    I considered that thought several months ago using RTV, an uncured rubber in a tube of which I have several but it's white. I found some at ACE Hdwe. and it's clear. Being somewhat of a procrastinator, your query managed to get me a 'round tuit'. So, last night, I did just that. Below are photos and impedance measurements of that endeavor.

    Photos 1180,1,2 are of the speaker before treatment. Photo 1185 shows the annulus after coating with RTV; note the gloss. Photo 1186 shows the fs and date. It looks like 33hz and 2/63. Photo 1184 is obvious but the brush has been trimmed by 1/4 inch. This will stiffen the bristles allowing a thinner coating to be applied as this stuff is kind of thick, much like caulk. However, it does spread easily. It sets after a few hours, curing fully around 24hrs. It smells like vinegar. Once cured, the odor disappears. Read the package instructions.

    A coating of about a half a millimeter (0.020") or thinner will be sufficient, similar to a good coating of paint to a wall using a brush.

    The after effect of fs is negligible, if any. In my case, the impedance was measured and fs was at 23.138hz and the impedance there was 100.687 ohms. Nineteen hours later, fs was unchanged, which I found very unusual. However, the impedance dropped a little to 100.156 ohms. This unchanging of fs I attribute to the wide roll and the small signal applied. The original fs of 23hz is attributed to age, the softening of the spider over the decades and possibly the annulus also. Given that, don't be too concerned about the thickness of the coating applied. I'll apply a second coat of RTV and measure fs and Z and publish the result in a new web page.

    The two graphs are plots of the impedance between 10hz and 20khz (free air) and a magnification of the peak.

    If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask, either here or via PM. For more information on this speaker, see my web page on it. https://www.ln271828.net/super12rsdd.html

    Robert

    D01180.JPG D01182.JPG D01183.JPG D01184.JPG D01185.JPG D01186.JPG Z-RTV-1.jpg Z-RTV-2.jpg
     
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  8. drbiggles

    drbiggles I like bacon Subscriber

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    Location:
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    Hmm. The early surrounds like this look to me like theyve never been treated. Very clean, no residue. The cabinets have all been ported. So, sealing things up was not necessary.

    Biggles
     
  9. klipschorn

    klipschorn Klipschorn

    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Chandler, Arizona
    Hello, Drbiggles. Long time no see.

    You may be right about the annulus never having been coated. The mesh is so very fine that it may not have had any effect in a ported cabinet of the large volumes used then. If it was coated or treated, the liquid used would have to have been as thin as water.
     
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  10. drbiggles

    drbiggles I like bacon Subscriber

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    6,708
    Location:
    Richmond, CA
    Hey man!

    Its good to see you, it has been a while. I havent done a lot with wharfedale in a while. I seem to remember some later rolled surrounds that did have some flexible, black coating. But these early ones do not. I have a single like this one the op posted. I still have my 1959 super 12s, foam surround.

    Biggles
     
  11. klipschorn

    klipschorn Klipschorn

    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Chandler, Arizona
    This OP's speaker and probably yours are in much better shape than mine, which has been exposed to an unfriendly environment. The cone is brown and probably somewhat brittle. When I found it, the coil was open at the connection on the cone. This restoration can be seen in the link just given to Brian.

    Recently, a friend in NY got me interested again with the SFB3. Having all the necessary drivers for it, I made a few. The first used a W12CS, then the W15CS was used and this evolved to an open back without sides and just wide enough for the speakers. Later, a Dayton DC380 was used for the bass along with a Faital Pro ten inch and a Tymphany horn tweeter. The mids and highs of the latter were about the same as the Wharfedales but that W15 gave a much better bass than the Dayton, despite the 25% smaller cone area of the W15. The reason for the Dayton was to avoid damaging the W15 should I get careless with the volume. That Dayton can handle 100 watts; the 60 year old W15 would come apart with that diet.

    Robert
     

     

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  12. transmaster

    transmaster AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    With my Achromatic Wharfedales, I am finding a match made in heaven with the Dayton DTA-120BT audio amp.
     

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