What am I hearing in conicals?

I tried a new conical stylus on my OM Super and it sounded remarkably like the OM30 stylus except when I put on headphones. It was a bit darker sounding and didn't have the sparkling high end the 30's tip had. Still, for casual listening it's more than sufficient, and those who like a warmer sound may actually prefer it.

I've had experience with the Shure V15 IIIG and it was every bit as good as the hyper-elliptical, at least on the machine I had at the time. Nothing wrong with a conical stylus on a good quality cartridge.
 
One of the best conicals I have ever heard is my Audio Technica P-mount which has a carbon fiber cantilever. I use it on my bedroom Technics belt driven table. It is the perfect choice for playing thrift store vinyl. I try to save my ellipticals for the living room system, and "new' vinyl. The myth that all conicals suck is just that, a myth.
 
One of the best conicals I have ever heard is my Audio Technica P-mount which has a carbon fiber cantilever. I use it on my bedroom Technics belt driven table. It is the perfect choice for playing thrift store vinyl. I try to save my ellipticals for the living room system, and "new' vinyl. The myth that all conicals suck is just that, a myth.
Yes, that's true... For the most part, anyway. Really, the tonal character of a cartridge/stylus, along with it's dynamic capabilities and speed, have more to do with cantilever and generator design than tip profile. It's been discussed here so many times, but I'll bring it up again...

Usually, most low-end home audio or DJ conical styli have hefty bonded tips attached to big clunky cantilevers, and are supported by simplistic suspensions that require a high tracking force. For the DJ, the advantage to this design is apparent... They've got to be tough and inexpensive. The home audio conical is usually a very entry-level product that is designed as a mere stepping stone to something higher-end.

When playing conicals with these less-than-dainty cantilever/generator designs, you might hear sound that is glazed and glassy, dense and congested, dark and dull, sloppy and glaring, etc. Yet, you may find that another cartridge (like your AT) with the exact same conical tip profile might sound far more smooth, detailed, open etc. This cartridge will likely have lower mass and better controlled moving components. So, really, it is a myth that the tip is the only defining component of a stylus assembly. If a conical stylus in good condition truly sounds bad, it's probably not the tip's fault.

In some ways, I think that tip designs can be as much a marketing tool as megapixels on a digital camera. Chances are, the 24 megapixel camera that costs $79 isn't going to shoot pictures that are as good as a 14 megapixel camera that costs five times more. Gimmicks are no substitute for quality. Likewise, it's been my experience that there are plenty of conicals that outperform plenty of cheap ellipticals. (Pretty sure you could put a shibata tip on a DJ cantilever, and it'll still sound like a DJ cartridge. Put a lightweight nude .5 mil conical on an extremely rigid, low-mass cantilever, and I'll bet it will blow your mind.)

Yet, sometimes, that bottom-heavy, congested sound from the right boat-anchor cantilever and blunt conical tip is just what the doctor ordered... Nothing else can quite deliver that rockin' jukebox-like sound, or the creamy warm tone reminiscent of the mid-century consoles that records of the period were played on. For old mono/microgroove LPs or 45s, it's not just the best thing... It's the only thing!
 
Yet, sometimes, that bottom-heavy, congested sound from the right boat-anchor cantilever and blunt conical tip is just what the doctor ordered... Nothing else can quite deliver that rockin' jukebox-like sound, or the creamy warm tone reminiscent of the mid-century consoles that records of the period were played on. For old mono/microgroove LPs or 45s, it's not just the best thing... It's the only thing!
Yes, but a Stereohedron can come close! The Stanton 680SL -- a rare heavy-tracking DJ stereohedron stylus, designed to run at 2 to 5 grams:

 
Yes, that's true... For the most part, anyway. Really, the tonal character of a cartridge/stylus, along with it's dynamic capabilities and speed, have more to do with cantilever and generator design than tip profile. It's been discussed here so many times, but I'll bring it up again...

Usually, most low-end home audio or DJ conical styli have hefty bonded tips attached to big clunky cantilevers, and are supported by simplistic suspensions that require a high tracking force. For the DJ, the advantage to this design is apparent... They've got to be tough and inexpensive. The home audio conical is usually a very entry-level product that is designed as a mere stepping stone to something higher-end.

When playing conicals with these less-than-dainty cantilever/generator designs, you might hear sound that is glazed and glassy, dense and congested, dark and dull, sloppy and glaring, etc. Yet, you may find that another cartridge (like your AT) with the exact same conical tip profile might sound far more smooth, detailed, open etc. This cartridge will likely have lower mass and better controlled moving components. So, really, it is a myth that the tip is the only defining component of a stylus assembly. If a conical stylus in good condition truly sounds bad, it's probably not the tip's fault.

In some ways, I think that tip designs can be as much a marketing tool as megapixels on a digital camera. Chances are, the 24 megapixel camera that costs $79 isn't going to shoot pictures that are as good as a 14 megapixel camera that costs five times more. Gimmicks are no substitute for quality. Likewise, it's been my experience that there are plenty of conicals that outperform plenty of cheap ellipticals. (Pretty sure you could put a shibata tip on a DJ cantilever, and it'll still sound like a DJ cartridge. Put a lightweight nude .5 mil conical on an extremely rigid, low-mass cantilever, and I'll bet it will blow your mind.)

Yet, sometimes, that bottom-heavy, congested sound from the right boat-anchor cantilever and blunt conical tip is just what the doctor ordered... Nothing else can quite deliver that rockin' jukebox-like sound, or the creamy warm tone reminiscent of the mid-century consoles that records of the period were played on. For old mono/microgroove LPs or 45s, it's not just the best thing... It's the only thing!

Why do people in this forum enjoy disagreeing, even when they agree "for the most part"?
 
I have some sphericals, 0.5, 0.6 and 0.7mil. I like the 0.5mil the best. I seldom use them though as I find a line contact to be much more of my likings, or a Shibata. The sphericals are a very old design and the sound from them today is of course similar to an older type of sound. If we like that type of sound, it´s perfectly fine, there are rooms for a lot of different likings in this world of audio.
 
Does anyone know where I can pick up a good tracking .6 conical for my shure v15III ?.

Thank you

Lawrence

This is the only .6 mil conical for the V15 lll that I am aware of...

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1595

VN-3G.JPG
 
Yes this is possible but since jico does not give any information....and the auctions on ebay show .7mil we can assume that they all are..

like i said I already ordered from the posted site...and am grateful..
 
Yes this is possible but since jico does not give any information....and the auctions on ebay show .7mil we can assume that they all are..

like i said I already ordered from the posted site...and am grateful..

JICO steadfastly refuses to publish any specs on their products and I don't trust the specs provided by LPTunes, their official North American distributor. For example, the LPTunes web site lists the following specs for the JICO N44GX replacement stylus:

DETAILS
  • • JICO replacement Shure N-44GX stylus
  • • 0.7 mil conical diamond tip for high fidelity
  • • Made in Japan, genuine JICO® stylus with each stylus quality inspected & sound tested
  • • Lightweight aluminum alloy cantilever
  • • 3.5 - 4.5 g tracking force
The original specs for the genuine Shure N44GX list the recommended tracking force as 0.75 - 1.5g. So, is it, or isn't it a suitable replacement for a genuine Shure N44GX? That's a huge difference in recommended tracking force. I sent LPTunes an email and they just parroted the specs listed on their web site. I'm looking for some lighter tracking conicals for my Shure SC35C cartridges. I already have 4 of the original Shure SS35C styli that track between 4 and 5g. The last thing I need is another heavy tracker.
 
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