What do I get besides 3db?

[Tomster]

@Indiana Drew. I suppose I'm just being lazing by asking first. But in a NYC apartment moving equipment around is not trivial. Wanted to get some confirmation that there might be upside. I have to move a baby grand piano just to get to my amps. (Have to move the OTHER piano to get to the back of my speakers! But shouldn't need to do that for these changes.)

Also Drew, my plan is to KEEP the MC250 driving the bass on both speakers. It sounds great.

@damacman Thanks for the hope. I'm going to add the 2nd MC225 first. Listen for a few days so I have a good measure of how that changes things. Following weekend I will rotate in the MX110z.

@TSmith8605 Yes. All in top working condition thanks to Ryan and crew at Audio Classics.

So here's the plan.
1. Add the 2nd MC225. I will have:
- horizontal bi-amping with one MC250 on base and MC225s on mid/hi
- vertical bi-amping on the mid/hi posts with 2 mono MC225s.
2. After a good listen, swap the C20 with the MX100Z.

 

[whoaru99]

All interesting ideas for improving a system, but the question on the table is this: Add a 2nd MC225 or not? What will I get out of it?

The only sure bet is 3dB.

 

[Indiana Drew]

@Indiana Drew. I suppose I'm just being lazing by asking first. But in a NYC apartment moving equipment around is not trivial. Wanted to get some confirmation that there might be upside. I have to move a baby grand piano just to get to my amps. (Have to move the OTHER piano to get to the back of my speakers! But shouldn't need to do that for these changes.)

Also Drew, my plan is to KEEP the MC250 driving the bass on both speakers. It sounds great.

Figured there was a back story to having the parts, but asking the questions first. I will be interested to know if you feel there is any difference. I believe my two 225s sound different running in mono then just one in stereo. For the size of my space though, a 225 in stereo has more than enough power to play louder than I care to listen at least with Belles. I suspect that even with the less sedative Heresys, the volume would be loud enough. I do have different tubes in each 225 so one does play louder than the other with the gains set the same. My tech restored both at the same time so they should otherwise have identical components.

I'll also be interested to know how you like the MX110 in the mix.

 

[Tomster]

OK. So before I did any of the plan laid out above, I replaced the MC250 with the spare MC225. That means I had horizontal bi-amping with 2 MC225s both in stereo mode (one playing the highs on both speakers, the other lows on both). Yuck! Bass, which is usually fantastic with the MC250, turned to mush. I played a half dozen of my 'Best Bass Tunes' playlist, and the MC225 just wallowed around in the mud. Couldn't make out the beginning or end of distinct notes. A friend asked me to try this, and now we know. This is not a complete surprise. The old Legacy Focus' each sport three 12" woofers. I have always been surprised how well the MC250 did. But The MC225 was clearly not up to it.

Back to the plan. I set up both MC225s to run mono. Problemo. One amp worked like a champ. The other did not work at all in mono. Did all the troubleshooting: swapped cables, disconnected and re-connect speakers and straps. No joy. I believe I'm setting it up right (the other one works). I think it is the mono/stereo switch. To bad, really wanted to try hear this. When time permits, I'll try swapping the C20 with the MX100z.

 

[Tomster]

Its better to be lucky than good. When I A/B tested the MC225 stereo vs mono, both listeners felt the stereo version was sweeter, but the mono version was more clear (which I attributed to separation).

Someone pointed out to me that my MC225 situation is nearly perfect. I just need to switch the one amp that is currently set up for mono back to stereo. Then just use one channel in each. Retains the preferable sound of going through the single circuit, and achieves the benefits of separation. Brilliant! Is it a shame to be using only half of each MC225? Maybe, but I'll switch channels from time to time to balance the usage, and just be content with a system that sounds great!

 

[sKiZo]

The only thing I don't love about this system is percussion. Just doesn't sound genuine.

I imagine it's more of an EQ issue. Things get busy down there and any hit or miss tweaks MAY fix one part of the spectrum, but at the expense of another. Having a good crisp bass line with full accurate definition is pure joy.

The "ear - Mark One" just isn't gonna be accurate enough to flatten out response and make all the instruments play well with each other. I highly recommend you load up Room EQ Wizard on a laptop so you'll know EXACTLY what you're dealing with. Software is free, and the only specialized equipment you'll need is a calibrated mike. You'll also want to invest in a dedicated DAC that can automatically apply REW's Results to your system.

Difference is literally night and day and pretty much a one time deal long as you don't make any major changes to the listening area.

Very professional results. LOTS more info on the process available online, so I'll leave it at that.