Cody AOC

Active Member
To begin this it's not audiophile grade but I wanted to know if I used two 12" or 15" car subwoofers per box and used some good sounding mid range speakers and tweeters with maybe similar sensitivity and used 2 midrange speakers and 2 tweeters per box i'm not sure I just want to copycat the Cerwin vega XLS 215 speakers you may say oh buy a subwoofer and do things separately but I want it all in a set of speakers dual 12's or 15" with 2 mids and 2 highs along with some type of passive crossover. Active crossovers are too much of a pain for me to play with.
 
Personally, I'd suggest a fair bit of reading in both the "Speakers" and "DIY" forums getting up to snuff on the building of enclosures and selection of speakers/cross overs. There's lots of info/detail to build a knowledge base for your quest.

Q
 
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Most 3 way designs have the woofer working up to the 500 to 1KHz range, and tweeter picking up at around the 5KHz range.
With a car sub, you wont be able to do anything much above 200Hz, but you really don't want to cross over there because that is where voice is. Even if you where to combine a car sub, with a car mid/tweet and cross it over under 100Hz it would be difficult to do passive because you would need a massive low pass inductor for the sub. It really makes no sense to go out and buy all these parts new and try to engineer speakers from scratch unless you really know what you are doing. There are many great deals on used speakers out there. Start cruising craigslist or your other favorite classified near you and something is sure to show up. Even Cerwin vegas show up. Many may have disintegrated rubber surrounds but that is a relatively easy and cheap fix compared to building from scratch. Lots of kits too.
 
What mhardy said; go with an established design.
Other than that, it takes a router, clamps, soldering iron, and a saw. :) I think a table saw is the way to go, but IMO a really good radial saw with a clamped straightedge is better than a cheap plastic table saw.
 
I'm with efzauner on this - I've designed lots of loudspeakers over the years and I'm with you all the way on this.

Great avatar by the way - Love the 'Direct Drive' or would that be 'Idler Claw Drive - Nice.
 
What efzauner said pretty much nails it. Car subs aren't going to go up where you will want them to play in a design like that. You will also most likely be looking at a large sensitivity gap between subs and mid/tweeters. The only way this might work well is to design a 2-way that will get you down to ~100Hz, use 1 mid and 1 tweeter per side, design a sub using 2 drivers to increase sensitivity, and then build the whole thing in one box. Like efzauner said, you're going to end up with a monstrous inductor in a passive crossover to that sub. For a 100Hz crossover frequency using a 2nd order filter you're looking at something on the order of 15mH. A quick look at Parts Express shows 2 inductors of 15mH, one is $34 and the other is $38. For a 2nd order filter on both sides you will need 4 of those. If you go with a 1st order slope, you can get away with ~11mH and only need 2 of them. Looks like they range from $32 to $58 on PE, with a buyout right now for $10.50 although it's 20ga wire so power handling won't be all that great. For that design to sound good you will need flat response from the sub for about 2 octaves above the crossover, so you'll need one that's good up to about 400Hz, otherwise you'll end up having to do some pretty fancy filtering to get things to work. If you have decent measurement gear and know what you're doing, you can use the box as an acoustic component of the crossover on the midrange/midwoofer side but you're still going to have to deal with the sub.

PE does have a 2nd order, 150Hz, 8Ω crossover that runs $36. With careful driver choice that might work out and get you where you want to be, but chances are you're still going to have to pad the mid/tweeter down to meet a car sub. They're notoriously insensitive because watts are cheap and car folks want small enclosures so they give up sensitivity to get low bass (Hoffman's Iron Law).
 
Using an established design and sourcing the appropriate components, or getting a kit of parts or even the wooden panels pre-cut for you is the shortest and safest route to build something that works satisfactorily, with the rating being a lot dependent on what you pay for the parts. Driver prices may range by a ratio of up to 4x from acceptable to good.

If you are good with woodworking and have the space to make lots of sawdust, you can cut the panels yourself and only get the drivers and crossovers (or pcb/parts).

There are a lot of challenges until you build a pair of loudspeakers, even with the whole set of parts in front of you as a kit.
Glueing, tightening, straight corners and airtight construction isn't hard but takes practice. If you don't have those skills mastered, you may want to start with plain panels rather than (more expensive) CNC cut and tapered parts.

The other way to go would be to start from scratch and have fun. You should not be expecting to build a reference quality unit on your first attempt but that doesn't negate the fun you can have while doing so. I you decide to take that route, I would suggest you get a copy of Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker design Cookbook, 7th edition is the current one. I had previous experience from my youth, both in woodworking and the design process but I read that book from cover to cover several times a few years back and every time I read it I understood and learned something more.

Mixing and matching the drivers, is one important first step. With a two way system you have one point to make them meet. With a three way design, you have to points (crossover points) and three drivers to choose so that they match in sensitivity and crossover points.

The woofer (and midrange) are air loaded drivers and need a cabinet. For simplicity, let's focus on sealed. WinISD and several other freeware programs allow you to simulate the loading of the woofer (or midrange) and decide on enclosure size. Woofers from 8-12" usually need from 25-80lt. The midrange, unless it's sealed in the back with a limited, private air cushion in it's back, will need its own mini enclosure was well, usually from 1-5 lt. The tweeter just needs a hole on the front panel to make the magnet fit inside.

For the enclosure you need to consider bracing (hardwood sticks glued on the panels or fixed against facing panels) and padding with absorbent material that helps to somewhat absorb standing waves inside the enclosure and also (somewhat) increase the effective loading volume of the enclosure.

To make the cabinets you need space, a sturdy flat bench (actually the smaller the better as big ones get full of clutter), tightening screws, dowels if you like,a drill, and the usual tools for carpentry.
It's better to have the panels cut in the shop at the sizes you want so they are better cut and at 90 degree edges. You can do that yourself if you have a good table saw. A good quality jigsaw may do but you need a steady guide. A router is nice for cutting the driver holes but a jigsaw can be also used there (as can a router, but that adds quickly to the list of electric tools and the amount of fine dust).

Crossovers are a big chapter of the effort, whether you go passive or active. You can go the best route and get a digital active crossover (like minidsp) and three amplifiers (they could be gainclones or something like that) and experiment or go passive. The best approach, although not widely popular, is the active way for many reasons. Passive crossovers are explained in books (and the Cookbook mentioned above) and they are simply filters with slopes of varying intensity. They also come with their imprefections and issues that needs to be addressed for each. One could start with a plain crossover after choosing the appropriate "crossing" frequencies and build a low pass filter (for the woofer), a bandpass for the midrange and a high pass for the tweeter. Depending on the drivers you may need to have an increased slope (or order) which adds more components. These components are bulky sometimes and can be very expensive if you go crazy.

And if you put yourself your own design/idea, you really need some means to measure that. Ideally one needs access to an anechoic chamber but since none of us do, there are compromises and alternatives. But they include at the very minimum a good measurement microphone, a suitable preamplifier / power supply for it and software for the computer platform you are using.

Sounds much and complicated? It's because it is. But it's not something that cannot be understood and you don't really need maths skills to build a speaker. And you get a lot of satisfaction from doing that, if you don't mind wasting some wood from time to time, either because it wasn't cut correctly or because it was not put together correctly or because the design idea wasn't good to start with.

I suggest you start with the cookbook above. Read it, understand the process and then you will know more about loudspeakers. At that point you will either appreciate a ready made one or you will have your curiosity and imagination ignited and start putting together tools and drivers.
 
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