What is a DAC and why might I need one?
- Thread starter macaltec
- Start date
macaltec
Metal Master
Thanks Rich. I did get the acronym but just didnt understand the application. In a nut shell it ideally provides a better signal from digital sources/formats?? I guess I never questioned the analog output on the back of my CD players. I may give it a whirl if I come across one on the cheap.
A DAC is required for any digital source.
Just like a receiver is really a tuner, preamplifier and power amplifier on a single chassis, a CD player is a disc transport and DAC in one chassis. Increasingly, however, folks are replacing the low capacity removable physical media we've been using since the early 80s with high capacity solid state or conventional "spinning rust" hard drives. Why shuffle hundreds if not thousands of individual pieces of plastic when the data can easily housed and more readily accessed from a single storage device?
So, I have my music digitized and stored on an external hard drive. I typically play this thru my late 2012 Mac Mini and Boston computer speakers with sub. Would I benefit from using a stand alone DAC? How would I add the DAC to the system? I see more googling in my immediate future.
Benefit? Yes. Even inexpensive standalone DACs outperform most onboard sound cards.
Broadly speaking, there are two ways to utilize your computer:
1. Use a USB connection to a compatible DAC. Some are compact enough, they are essentially "dongles" that hang off the computer and have analog outputs like the AQ Dragonflies.
2. Use the Mac as file server only and purchase a renderer/transport (my preference) connected via network. There are a wide range of models available, but most cost effective are those based upon the Raspberry Pi platform.
I choose the latter approach since my music/video server feeds a number of players throughout the house and such provides better isolation to computer generated noise.
invaderzim
Super Member
We really could use a sticky in this forum covering what a DAC is, what it does and how it fits into a system (and where they are already). They seem to be the least known portion of a system.
This is not always a good approach to improving SQ with an external DAC. Good DACs tend to keep their values well.
macaltec
Metal Master
Thanks guys. Interesting stuff for sure. I have been looking at some DACs and deciding if there is a place /need for one in my system. I gotta ask, is one likely to have an "ah ha" moment when introducing one to a system for the first time? I use my CDP for most of my listening. I don't stream much beyond Pandora occasionally and I do have much of my CD collection ripped to MP3 format (not the lowest quality but not the highest either) for convenience on the go wether it be on my phone or a USB drive for my car stereo. I looked at some Schiit models, naturally I gravitated to the higher priced stuff. Thought I might try the Fulla 2 because of its versatility and if I like what it does I can pass it along to my son as he uses headphones and streaming services quite a bit. Then I could invest in something a bit better.
As for using with CDPs much depends on the CDP as some already have pretty good DAC/Analog/jitter-correction implementations and there could well be a "meh" moment instead when trying an external DAC with such a CDP. For computer usage, it is very likely an external (decent) DAC will be a noticeable improvement over the built-in computer sound, even with MP3s given they are high enough bitrate, I'd say >128kbps.
Based on the limited info I could find Pro-Bit is a Yamaha proprietary 20-bit rated Delta-Sigma DAC which was supposedly pretty good so YMMV with an external DAC. Folks tend to like multi-bit DACs here, if you only intend use the DAC with the CDP and don't mind buying used you might just want to pick a vintage multi-bit DAC such as Adcom GDA-600/700, or Parasound DAC 1000/2000, never heard one personally but my understanding DACs for CD playback don't get much better than these. Modern multi-bit offerings are rare and tend to be on the higher end of price spectrum, with one notable exception which is Schiit Modi Multibit which many, myself excluding, are very happy with. One aspect to consider is the resolution of material you want to play and if the DAC supports is, CDs are 16 bits/44.1 kHz also known as Red Book format and pretty much all DACs can handle Red Book from a CDP given they have digital inputs to connect a CDP (some are USB only), if you want to get into high-resolution downloads or DSD you'll need a DAC that supports those formats. Apart from multi-bit DACs there is also Delta-Sigma which is the dominating variety these days, there is nothing wrong with them just a different way to skin the same cat, and some are pretty good. Knowing your DAC budget would help folks to provide some recommendations. And yes, a lot depends on the rest of the system, if your amp/speakers aren't resolving enough you may not be able to hear an improvement from an external DAC.
macaltec
Metal Master
I don't download music so related issues are irrelevant in that regard. My music is mostly as previously stated. I may stream Pandora or Spotify more if I had a DAC in place and may consider digital storage options for playback instead of digging through CDs.
My system:
Fisher KX90 with nice Mullard output tubes and Telefunken's up front
Klipsch Cornwall IIs, Bob Crites caps and tweeter diaphragms
The Yamaha CDP mentioned (I am quite pleased thus far with this piece)
These pieces remain fairly constant but I do switch in some vintage solid state amps, receivers, other tube gear and rotate a few other high efficiency horn speakers a few times a month. Depends on my mood.
Budget is: This is merely a curiosity for me at this point but I can see myself around $400 if I was to decide that it added to my listening experience. I'm certainly not in a hurry and will continue to educate myself in the event something in the used arena should present itself.
My system:
Fisher KX90 with nice Mullard output tubes and Telefunken's up front
Klipsch Cornwall IIs, Bob Crites caps and tweeter diaphragms
The Yamaha CDP mentioned (I am quite pleased thus far with this piece)
These pieces remain fairly constant but I do switch in some vintage solid state amps, receivers, other tube gear and rotate a few other high efficiency horn speakers a few times a month. Depends on my mood.
Budget is: This is merely a curiosity for me at this point but I can see myself around $400 if I was to decide that it added to my listening experience. I'm certainly not in a hurry and will continue to educate myself in the event something in the used arena should present itself.
I just checked the model and funny thing I have a CDC-745 sitting in the garage that I abandoned after going to computer-media and before I became more critical of the SQ. I have a couple of more or less modern DACs in rotation and can try the 745 with and w/o them to get an idea about the differences, but not before I replace the tray belt as the thing won't open. The 745 is supposedly similar to the 685 and uses the same Pro-Bit Yamaha chip.
Got the belt and the tray working. So here is my impressions after a quick test, take them with a grain of salt or however you like. Downstream of the CDP/DAC my system is Adcom GFP-565->Yamaha-MX600U->JBL L100 Centuries. Compared against a Arcam rDac and Centrance DACMini CX, both were well reviewed units at the time but at this point they are already a couple of generations behind but probably still hold up well against current mid-fi gear. I used a cheapo Toslink cable the only one I had. I thought the CDC-745 held up pretty well considering its age. Both of the above external DACs were slightly more resolving with more detail pop and overall sounded a tad fuller, but I could definitely live with the sound from the Yamaha as well. I came across some discussions about op-amp rolling in these changers, if you have the skills that may be another avenue to pursue.
Another discovery was that years in garage storage took its toll, I couldn't finish a single song as the thing now skips like crazy. I remember it being picky with certain CDs before it was decomissioned, but not as bad if memory serves.
Another discovery was that years in garage storage took its toll, I couldn't finish a single song as the thing now skips like crazy. I remember it being picky with certain CDs before it was decomissioned, but not as bad if memory serves.
macaltec
Metal Master
So I have finally discovered the ease of access to music with the Spotify app. While it sounds decent from my tablet I feel that the sound is very veiled. So now I am seriously looking for a DAC. This raises more questions. The first for the express purpose of playing Spotify, how many features do I really need? Do I need multibit capability?
Are you a Spotify premium subscriber, did you set the quality level to highest in the settings if so? I use Spotify premium all the time and while the quality is less than CDs it is satisfying. I'd say a decent DAC, multibit or not, will improve the experience. If you want to use the tablet to play Spotify you likely also want to get Chromecast Audio, it will allow you to play Spotify through your yet to be purchased DAC via Wi-Fi w/no physical connection between the DAC and the tablet.
Then there are also networked DACs and/or medial players that can stream Spotify directly (you typically control them from your phone/tablet), some are actually pretty good in the DAC department and have digital inputs for CD players, which is another option to consider.
What tablet is it? Older Android devices didn't support external DACs.
E.Auer
Super Member
That can usually be solved with a CCA, which of course also gives you the benefit of a un-tethered tablet.
Or in his case as he is using the phone to control it, skip the tablet and just go Phone > CCA > DAC.
I listen to Spotify Premium thru a Topping D30 DAC and like it a lot. Sub $100 these days.
Eric
