What is a DAC and why might I need one?

So the WiFi aspect seems to be fine now. The connectivity between my device and the CCA is still a pain in the ass. I don't leave anything plugged in when not in use and I have yet to figure out the process involved in getting everything talking to each other when I power up. Google Home says my device is ready to cast but I seemingly need to talk dirty to my tablet to get it to recognise the CCA. Sometimes rebooting the CCA works sometimes I need to do that a few times. Sounds good when it is working. Maybe it will get better. If not it will make a nice target at about 300 yards.
My dad would say: "Elektronik ist ein Teufelswerk!" (electronics is the work of the devil)

If you get totally fed up with the chrome cast, maybe consider the Sonos Connect. There are other similar options out there, don't remember their names right now (JRiver?). Maybe just check out the "Home Audio Players" list at Tidal.http://www.sonos.com/en-us/sonos-vs-bluetooth
Bluetooth is also an option, albeit the sound quality would suffer. But maybe its "frequency" doesn't interfere with the WiFi going on in your house.

Personally, I prefer wires :) Blazing fast speeds to my home-build FreeBSD server. Never had a drop-out with audio or video, not even with 4k video.
If you have a laptop, maybe you can figure out a way to wire it up so that you can use it from your couch somehow.
 
My current favorite source of "DACs" right now are outdated AVRs, especially those with HDMI 1.4 or older . If you can get over the size and weight of them, they're the best value by far. They usually contain a quality DAC at 24/96 or 24/192. Use a HDMI connection which has more available bandwidth than a USB dac. Include speaker, and headphone amplification, along with remote, sub-woofer integration, and various tweaking abilities. People are dumping these things for under $100 all the time. I've found these things for $20-40 at thrift stores lots of times.
 
USB has enough bandwidth for 2 channels up to 384 kHz/24 bits, why would you need more isn't clear to me. And unless you're talking about about higher-end units AVRs are mediocre at best for audiophile duty.
 
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USB only has that kind of bandwidth on devices that have their own special drivers. Something using pnp drivers will be limited to 24/96. Then you'll be at the mercy of future driver updates. HDMI doesn't have such limitation. AVR are mediocre because they're meant to power 5 or more channels, with a common power supply. When you use them for 2 channel, they'll actually get close to or surpass their rated power. Not to mention TOTL AVR with HDMI 1.4 or lower are so cheap now thanks to 4k TVs being so cheap, people are dumping them all over the place.
 
Windows 10 supports UAC2 with no drivers now, and Linux and Mac supported it for a while now. Also apparently HDMI can be quite jittery. USB has been around and used for audio for quite a while and over time several good USB audio chipsets emerged. It is not clear if a significant amount of R&D has taken place on the HDMI side of things as it was typically reserved for video duty where there is less emphasis on audio quality. Here some info on this subject: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/10/measurements-onkyo-tx-nr1009-as-hdmi.html . Also not everyone would want to replace their discrete amps with an AVR that is more often than not using Class D circuits. And I'd be surprised if any AVR would have a half-decent headphone amp.
 
Windows 10 supports UAC2 with no drivers now, and Linux and Mac supported it for a while now. Also apparently HDMI can be quite jittery. USB has been around and used for audio for quite a while and over time several good USB audio chipsets emerged. It is not clear if a significant amount of R&D has taken place on the HDMI side of things as it was typically reserved for video duty where there is less emphasis on audio quality. Here some info on this subject: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/10/measurements-onkyo-tx-nr1009-as-hdmi.html . Also not everyone would want to replace their discrete amps with an AVR that is more often than not using Class D circuits. And I'd be surprised if any AVR would have a half-decent headphone amp.

Here are some quotes from your link regarding jitter...

"Hmmm, it looks like HDMI jitter can be cleaned out after all (eg. Arcam, Classe, Pioneer)! It's about the implementation, not necessarily the interface itself. If you read around these posts, one also finds that the jitter value and subjective sound quality do not necessarily correlate."

"Tests like the J-test can demonstrate that jitter is a real phenomenon. Engineers should pay attention to it when designing hi-fi equipment. A discerning audiophile should be aware of it and if able to, can measure it themselves and decide if the engineer did a good enough job. However, IMO, to say that jitter is somehow audible at these kinds of levels I think would be impossible"

"the concept of jitter significantly deteriorating sound quality I believe is utter nonsense in the real world. That some companies would even consider using jitter as a reason for putative significant audible differences between passive "components" like cables is just not credible!"

You can hate on class D all you want, but it's pretty much the future, in fact many modern ones can measure better than the best Class A/AB. Not to mention, most of the upper model AVR are actually Class AB, and the TOTL are often class A at lower power levels.

As for using an AVR as a headphone amp. They have one thing going for them that very few dedicated headphone amps have, and even fewer affordable ones. Very high current ability, due to the fact they're just using resistors on the speaker outputs. This is extremely beneficial for inefficient hard to drive headphones, like planar magnetics, or anything very high impedance. I have a pair of modified fostex t50rp (t50rp stuffed with sound absorbing materials to make an already inefficient planar, even more inefficient). My o2 headphone amp needs 75% volume at high gain to get bass out of these headphones. The AVRs I've tried these on could all power these headphones sufficiently at low volume. The downside of this design is possibly more noise with efficient low impedance headphones due to impedance mismatch.

When you look at the overall value, and what you can get for an outdated AVR on the used market for $100 or less, sometimes significantly less. You won't be able to buy a DAC, headphone amp, and speaker amp, even at used prices that will compare. Also, you still wouldn't get the sub-woofer integration features of an AVR, or the room correction DSP features.
 
When you look at the overall value, and what you can get for an outdated AVR on the used market for $100 or less, sometimes significantly less. You won't be able to buy a DAC, headphone amp, and
speaker amp, even at used prices that will compare. Also, you still wouldn't get the sub-woofer integration features of an AVR, or the room correction DSP features.

I get it, really. If you're starting from scratch and the goal is to get as much as possible for your dollar an AVR is a reasonable solution with some, perhaps minor, compromises. At the same time I don't expect folks who have their systems already start buying AVRs to run them as DACs.
 
Some interesting info here. I can appreciate what the newer higher end AVRs are capable of but it is highly unlikely that one will be replacing anything in my current setup. I am too deep into the vintage gear and how it sounds/works for me.
 
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Glad I happened across this thread, I currently run the majority of my music off my PC (most tunes I have saved in 24 bit format). I also have a Soundblaster Z audio card installed (I don't go for the onboard audio hardware). I am in the process of overhauling a Pioneer SX 1050. When that is done I wish to run an audio cable from the Soundblaster board to the receiver. In this case would a separate DAC benefit me or would the DAC on the Soundblaster card do well enough to output in decent quality to the Pioneer?
 
I've been chasing the digital chain ghost for about 4 years.

I have about $1k in it. Dedicated sound card, out-board DAC, the latest xmos SPDIF convertor for the DAC, etc.

I took my DAC and SPDIF converter over to another AK member's house tonight. He has a selection of quality vintage gear. He streams music using the DAC in his Vizio TV. I was blown away by the sound quality he was achieving. He doesn't feel the need for a better DAC at the present time. He does have a HRT Music Streamer that he uses some of the time, I guess with systems that are not hooked to the TV.

I came home and I'm experimenting with using the analog outs on my Vizio. No preamp. I have the analogs outputs hooked to an active sub, frequencies above 50 Hz go to Parasound amps, mono blocked to ADS L1290/II speakers.

This very interesting. The sound is not as detailed, but it's smooth and forgiving.

I'll report back with further observations. I do believe the sound stage is diminished compared to the MuiscHall/Singxer combo.
 
I listened to my 'critical listening' flac files on my PC.

This is where the more expensive equipment makes a difference. Not so much for streaming from the internet.

The sound stage is not as holographic using the built-in DAC in the Vizio. It's there, it's decent, but it's between the speakers and it doesn't go as far back.

IMHO, the outboard DACs, dedicated sound cards, and quality pre-amps make a positive difference.

You have to know some basic stuff. IMHO, use FLAC for ripping, WASAPI, etc.

My digi-chain is geared toward FLAC playback. It's not exactly forgiving when it comes to streaming, differences in feed quality become more apparent.
 
More interesting stuff. I have been down so many rabbit holes over the years with vintage gear and speaker designs and tubes and stylii/carts and....... It can overwhelm and diminish the enjoyment of the music and the gear. Its hard to step back. I have to say that since I added the CCA and have been using Spotify that I have just been enjoying the music and my system/room.
 
It’s super convenient, I just picked up one myself for wireless Tidal HiFi playback (the Tidal iPhone app doesn’t yet support master high resolution files). I noticed a pretty noticeable improvement vs MacBook Retina 2012 onboard DAC. I can’t wait to hear the improvement using chromecast optical out to a Topping D30 DAC.
 
I can’t wait to hear the improvement using chromecast optical out to a Topping D30 DAC.
Yes Joe let us know how it goes
I'll probably be doing the same within a month. Not sure if the Topping will come out of my Christmas account or my wife's.
 
I’ll likely wait until Christmas as well. One problem I’ve discovered using Chromecast and Tidal: Master audio streaming. It doesn’t seem possible to cast software unfolded MQA files at 24bit/96kHz, which is a shame.
 
Update. The Chromecast quickly became the most aggrevating thing I have ever owned. It did however introduce me to how good digital streaming could sound. I have been reading a bunch and came across the ramblings of Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat (Schiit) and found their work, philosophy and general outlook on audio to be very fascinating. I ordered a Modi Multibit and Fulla 2 (for my son, he likes headphones). They arrived today and I am very impressed. Initial quality, look and feel of the product is very nice. The sound is fantastic. Using it with my 4S Universal 12a*7 Tube Preamp, Harmon Kardon Citation 19 and Klipsch Cornwall II w/Crites upgrades. Thanks too all who helped me to begin to understand this technology.
 
I've had my Modi Multibit for a few weeks now and agree with you, the sound is fantastic!

My listening preference is mostly jazz and classical. When I get tired of listening to what I have (on CD), I go here. http://swissjazz.radio.net/ Great music, no commercials.
 
It is a great thread! I too have a quite bit collection of Redbook CDs, and I sold my CDP (Meridian G08) a few years ago and went totally digital for the convince of the digital format. To be honest, I do regret selling my CDP from time to time when I run into computer issue.


Frist of all, I go agree USB cable makes big difference, especially the better the DAC you have the difference between USB cables are more produced.


2nd, I learned using good 3rd party software to rip CD and playback made huge improvement over sound quality. Before I was using iTunes (I am a Mac user) to rip CD to lossless, then I discovered a free software called XLD ripper that made my realize the files ripped using iTunes have metallic or digital glare to them! I guess the sound is not about 1 and 0 when comes to digital files. Cheers!
 
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