What power output you claim for your gear?

[Alobar]

I pull a 24 foot camper with my Ford Ranger with a 4 cylinder and the basic drivetrain ...

Of course, it's only 500 pounds ... <G>

My Ranger has the 3.0 6 in it and I am always totally overloading that thing! Going on 20 years old and still pulling its own around here...

 

[sKiZo]

In case you're wondering about the 24 feet ... I ain't kidding ... it may fold down to a 4x8, but it's MUCH bigger on the inside, with a full sized bed.

... er ... what was the topic? <G>

 

[OMGCat!]

I think Rangers are in a class of their own. I've towed a VW bug 500 miles, many full motorcycle trailers, u-haul trailers not to mention the few times I filled bed with scrap cast iron blocks and the powerhouse 2.3l four banger hasn't missed a beat in the 175k I've owned it (275k total now). Not bad for a free truck that need some maintenance and a transmission rebuild back in '01.

 

[4-2-7]

My amps are so big I don't really worry about it, I gots gobs of power...

I just go by what the manufacture says, normally just stick to the 8ohm ratings.

However most Mac amps go far beyond their stated rating. So it's very widely known that the new MC275 is really a 90wpc amp but they opted to keep the model number for nostalgia reasons. So when I say I'm using two MC275 Mk VI, mono blocked @ 180 WPC, you'll just have to trust me.....

 

[Alobar]

In case you're wondering about the 24 feet ... I ain't kidding ... it may fold down to a 4x8, but it's MUCH bigger on the inside, with a full sized bed.

... er ... what was the topic? <G>

That's pretty cool! I need a bit more skin than that but I can sure see it for down south traveling and a living off the land.. I got a phobia about sleeping in tents in bear country tho..

 

[sKiZo]

 

[Northwinds]

514wpc 8 ohms
857wpc 4 ohms
DF 2000+
20-20000kHz @ .0001% THD

More then enough for my needs

 

[SoCal Sam]

514wpc 8 ohms
857wpc 4 ohms
DF 2000+
20-20000kHz @ .0001% THD

More then enough for my needs

Which amp is this?

 

[Northwinds]

Clair Brothers Phase Linear 700 series II upgraded to the max with White Oak components, nothing Phase Linear about it except the chassis and tranny

It will do 2 ohm loads but needs forced air cooling, running 4 ohms only needs fans if cranking the snot out of it

I have a dual San Ace 120 fan setup for it when needed

 

[whoaru99]

You can look at classicaudio's site for gear for sale where they bench the units and you can see that all amps far exceed their rated power level. Example Marantz 2270, 70wpc rated, 90 watt tested. Common on smaller units is 10% over. On bigger units that increases to 20% over, 20-30 or more watts higher than specification. Now for the good part, Glenn's amp at 60 over or 40% is very healthy based on info I have found for all sorts of different amps over the years...on the web.

Didn't you post something like this not terrible long ago?

Anyway, regardless...


Twice as much power is 3dB. 3dB increase is only "meh" in terms of output. Largely immaterial. Don't get your undies in a bunch.

Differences of 10%, 20%, are nothing, so to speak. Even 40% is effectively no big deal.

100% is 3dB, just a little difference. 10dB is 900% increase yet just 2x more in terms of perceived SPL.

The early 90s amp has an output current of 50 amps per channel, something that was not mentioned in older amps. There are some speakers that do demand high current. Things keep changing.

Current of 50A is pie in the sky bullshit for most amps. 50A at 8 ohms is 20,000 watts. 50A might happen for a couple milliseconds into a dead short but it's not happening into a typical speaker load unless you have one extra-wicked amp. Even at 2 ohms it's 5,000 watts. Beyond some milliseconds into a short? LOL, for the most part.

As to the specs for the JVC M-7050 amp, the THD is 0.0004% at 150 watts at 1kHz, 0.003% max between 20 and 20kHz and 0.03% max for 20 to 100kHz. With a 300µV/sec rise time, 120dB S/N. 0.003% IM distortion and a wide bandwidth it should be one heck of an amp. It is on my radar.

On paper it's a grand amp. Practically speaking, numbers are only on paper.

 

[Northwinds]

I could not imagine 50A per channel WOW. I run a 10A fuse for the line power and 8A for the speaker outputs

 

[Blue Shadow]

I don't care if this has been done before. I have a pet peeve of Claimed power by some when we know the right way to mention power. This goes a long way toward helping folks get what they need and not what they think they need which can save em money.

If someone has that 2270 and says its great for his speakers and has the bench 90 wpc someone is going to think he needs a 90 watter when in reality the need is for a 70 watter. Guy being mislead by bench numbers. When someone sells they usually go with the rated power or the watts written on the back for what the amp will draw at max power. Most here know that error whereas the seller most probably does not.

Hi current amps exist, 50 Amps is the spec, enjoy it, I know I do. Great amp, too. Oh, that 50A is per channel and we both know it is peak.

While I try to get folks to be honest with power claims you can work with us to educate us on the twice as loud is 10 times the power and double the power is only 3dB louder. Power gets burned up quick with most speakers except those with very high sensitivities, mostly horns. But when one claims a bench number it is difficult to get that number matched up with a spec number and the amps have very similar sonic output. The bigger number especially when a good 40% bump from rated is a number that leads one to think they need the next bigger amp from some other company when the 150 wpc number could be equaled with the lesser amp.

And with all the younger folks dropping in maybe our discussions will help them understand some of the specs better than before or with the car audio numbers they might know.

 

[Hak Foo]

The meter goes up to 60, so it must be 60 watts.

 

[motorstereo]

I go by what Dave O'Brien's test data was for my amps. 650 @.06 distortion for one mc2500 but memory escapes me what one of my 2100's did and I'm too lazy to dig up the paperwork.

 

[whoaru99]

Hi current amps exist, 50 Amps is the spec, enjoy it, I know I do. Great amp, too. Oh, that 50A is per channel and we both know it is peak.

Yeah, 50A, into what's basically a short circuit.

Are your speakers representative of a short circuit?

 

[whoaru99]

I don't care if this has been done before. I have a pet peeve of Claimed power by some when we know the right way to mention power. This goes a long way toward helping folks get what they need and not what they think they need which can save em money.

If someone has that 2270 and says its great for his speakers and has the bench 90 wpc someone is going to think he needs a 90 watter when in reality the need is for a 70 watter. Guy being mislead by bench numbers. When someone sells they usually go with the rated power or the watts written on the back for what the amp will draw at max power. Most here know that error whereas the seller most probably does not.

The heart of the matter is that 70W vs 90W is largely an immaterial difference. It's 1.1dB. Few people, if anyone, will be able to detect the difference in actual use.

I'm truly not trying to bust your balls here, but if one needs to quibble whether 70W or 90W is make or break, one is looking at the wrong power class of amplifier right out of the chute.

 

[biscuithead]

Years ago when I was an Audio Infant, I was quoting stats like a Hemi commercial.
Now, when I am showing a person, a newly acquired piece, we never talk specs, except for things like "that's an EL84"?... The first thing is : "how does it sound"? The last thing is: "you gonna keep it"?
Quoting WPC kinda stinks of aping the bourgeoisie, I identify more with the proletariat that knows the illusion of upward mobility starts with pretense.
...Forgive

 

[whoaru99]

I could not imagine 50A per channel WOW. I run a 10A fuse for the line power and 8A for the speaker outputs

It's certainly possible with a big enough amp. On my garage subs I run 2800W @ 4 ohms and that's a mere 26A. If you consider peak power it's probably in the low 30A range.

My point of contention is not that there aren't amps capable of something like that, but one has to understand the context beyond marketing fluff.

Harman Kardon was, maybe still is, real good for stating high current specs. 70A from relatively low power units in the range of 100WPC. Now, I don't doubt that HK can get the amp to produce a momentary spike of 70A in some contrived lab test, but a 100W amp putting a 70A peak into a typical speaker load? Nope, ain't happening.

When looking at the "high current" spec, you will see they are very seldom qualified with the conditions in which that "high current" spec is met. Why not? Because if they published the test method more people would actually realize it's little more than specsmanship/fluff in most cases.

 

[whoaru99]

My Citation monos are at the techs getting the full goods done to them. I wonder how his bench will compare with the factory specs: 360@16ohm, 500@8ohm, 640@4ohm and 720@2ohm....

You'll have to ask the conditions of the test if it's that important and compare as best possible to the factory specs.

Line voltage, the point at which power is taken relative to distortion, etc.; any number of factors play in.

I often use a Yamaha M-80 as example because Yamaha provides fairly comprehensive specs in the service manual. Most people know this as a 250wpc amp. However, I could, if I chose to, call it a 265wpc amp or a 450wpc, or any number of different things, simply based on the test condition.

At the end of the day though, all of those different rating represent the exact same amplifier.

 

[SoCal Sam]

If you want to claim more power, flick the power meter range to 10X.