What speakers are these hanging from the ceiling?? (pictures)
- Thread starter G871
- Start date
I'm talking about those four connectors, with the red insulators held by the Phillips screws. They are ferrous.
When most people refoam the inside of the cover, they remove the back to clean out the old foam and do a nice job. Most typically one would just loosen the two screws with the horseshoe spade connectors and slide out the spades to separate these pieces. That's when the trouble ensues!
How about some good close-ups of all 4 of your woofers cones?
Good equates to any reader being able to count the number of accordian ridges found within the woofers surrounds.
A close inspection of the above pic would seem to indicate that the woofer is the 4583 model ( due the accordian surround ridge count of 4 ).
Why do you think you have 3581 woofers ( the sticker ?? )
The following pic shows the magnetic structure of the larger 4" voice-coil type woofers ( meaning this magnet wasn't used with the 3581 ).
The 3581 is a much less capable woofer, and is really meant for guitar players ( having virtually no linear cone travel or X-max ).
- ie; Hopefully you'll discover that you have (4) 4583's ( like bowtie mentioned from the get-go ).
The woofer surround of the top box ( in the following pic ) looks to be different than the bottom woofer. Is it?
Both appear to be different than the surrounds of the following pair.
Are they ?
PS; No need to start a duplicate thread over at LHF asking similar leading questions.
Build a pair of N8000 networks ( as recommended by Toddalin ) & then see how you like them. The parts are cheap enough! ie; Best to just to do it!
Good equates to any reader being able to count the number of accordian ridges found within the woofers surrounds.
A close inspection of the above pic would seem to indicate that the woofer is the 4583 model ( due the accordian surround ridge count of 4 ).
Why do you think you have 3581 woofers ( the sticker ?? )
The following pic shows the magnetic structure of the larger 4" voice-coil type woofers ( meaning this magnet wasn't used with the 3581 ).
The 3581 is a much less capable woofer, and is really meant for guitar players ( having virtually no linear cone travel or X-max ).
- ie; Hopefully you'll discover that you have (4) 4583's ( like bowtie mentioned from the get-go ).
The woofer surround of the top box ( in the following pic ) looks to be different than the bottom woofer. Is it?
Both appear to be different than the surrounds of the following pair.
Are they ?
PS; No need to start a duplicate thread over at LHF asking similar leading questions.
Build a pair of N8000 networks ( as recommended by Toddalin ) & then see how you like them. The parts are cheap enough! ie; Best to just to do it!
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G871
Active Member
Good catch!!! There are differences. The magnet stickers on 3 of them are labeled 5831. The magnet sticker on the one with the very different surround is labeled 5842.
But, there are other labels on the sides of the spider assembly. 2 of the supposed 5831's are labeled 4583A/F, and the other is labeled 4583XR. The one labeled 5842 on the magnet is labeled 4582 on the side of the spider assembly.
Then, there are the numbers on the cones. The two labeled 4583A/F have the same numbers printed on the cone: 3514500, 431. The 4583XR has 35-14500, 313. Then you have the 4582 which, on the cone, has 3514600, 033.
So I guess that's at least partially great news, yeah? That I have two 4583A/F that are the same? The surrounds are the same with the exception of possibly glue (?) that extends further onto the cone of one of them. The surround on the 4583XR is also the same as the A/F's. And obviously, as you spotted, the surround on the 4582 is very different.
Since I can only do 10 pictures per post, I'll start with the 2 4583A/F's. Then I'll follow up with the 2 others immediately after.
4583A/F #1
4583A/F #2
But, there are other labels on the sides of the spider assembly. 2 of the supposed 5831's are labeled 4583A/F, and the other is labeled 4583XR. The one labeled 5842 on the magnet is labeled 4582 on the side of the spider assembly.
Then, there are the numbers on the cones. The two labeled 4583A/F have the same numbers printed on the cone: 3514500, 431. The 4583XR has 35-14500, 313. Then you have the 4582 which, on the cone, has 3514600, 033.
So I guess that's at least partially great news, yeah? That I have two 4583A/F that are the same? The surrounds are the same with the exception of possibly glue (?) that extends further onto the cone of one of them. The surround on the 4583XR is also the same as the A/F's. And obviously, as you spotted, the surround on the 4582 is very different.
Since I can only do 10 pictures per post, I'll start with the 2 4583A/F's. Then I'll follow up with the 2 others immediately after.
4583A/F #1
4583A/F #2
G871
Active Member
And here are the magnet stickers.
The two 4583A/F's:
The 4583XR:
And the 4582:
So, the spec sheet that bowtie posted earlier in the thread lists the A and the F, but no A/F....and the A and F have different specs. Nor does it list an XR. I can't find mention of the A/F online, and I can find mention of the XR but no specs. Not that it's a huge deal, I guess - just curious about em.
The two 4583A/F's:
The 4583XR:
And the 4582:
So, the spec sheet that bowtie posted earlier in the thread lists the A and the F, but no A/F....and the A and F have different specs. Nor does it list an XR. I can't find mention of the A/F online, and I can find mention of the XR but no specs. Not that it's a huge deal, I guess - just curious about em.
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Thanks for the pics!
Your 3 best woofers were created by reconing 5831's into 4583's. They are now 4583's ( forget what the labels on the back of the magnets say ).
The only dodgy woofer of the lot is the 4582.
- The 4582 has very limited Xmax capability.
- It's a short-coil type usually used in horn-loaded applications ( or bass guitar where the extra 2nd harmonic distortion created by the coil leaving the gap is aurally attractive to most players.
A/F actually means "A" or "F" .
- F = Foam ,,,,, A = Accordian-style surround,,,,, such as you have.
- Both models used the same cone, the same voice-coil and the same spider , they only differ in the surround type used .
The "XR" series was Gauss's last innovation in speaker technology but I forget exactly what it actually was.
- ( I believe the VC's winding depth/length were the same as the previous generation ) /> I do know others have mentioned the "XR series was somewhat better ( actually, it might have been an implementation of better spider types ).
.
Your 3 best woofers were created by reconing 5831's into 4583's. They are now 4583's ( forget what the labels on the back of the magnets say ).
The only dodgy woofer of the lot is the 4582.
- The 4582 has very limited Xmax capability.
- It's a short-coil type usually used in horn-loaded applications ( or bass guitar where the extra 2nd harmonic distortion created by the coil leaving the gap is aurally attractive to most players.
A/F actually means "A" or "F" .
- F = Foam ,,,,, A = Accordian-style surround,,,,, such as you have.
- Both models used the same cone, the same voice-coil and the same spider , they only differ in the surround type used .
The "XR" series was Gauss's last innovation in speaker technology but I forget exactly what it actually was.
- ( I believe the VC's winding depth/length were the same as the previous generation ) /> I do know others have mentioned the "XR series was somewhat better ( actually, it might have been an implementation of better spider types ).
.
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This is a perfect example of why I said Gauss, in the resale market, don't command the value of JBL or Altec. Whereas JBLs and Altecs can be reconed in any number of ways, with cones readily available (even if only aftermarket), with Gauss, at this point in time, you get what you've got, and there is little chance of re-doing it back to old stock, new stock, or aftermarket.
An un-doped cone edge could possibly be doped, but other than that, your only real choice is to sell the incorrect one and try to find the matching speaker in similar condition.
But, at least you have a pair and you still done good and got good value for your money.
An un-doped cone edge could possibly be doped, but other than that, your only real choice is to sell the incorrect one and try to find the matching speaker in similar condition.
But, at least you have a pair and you still done good and got good value for your money.
orthophonic
Super Member
One of the clubs I DJ'd at in the 70's used those Gauss Studio monitors, four of them around the dance floor plus four Cerwin Vega Earthquake subwoofers all powered by eight BGW 500D amplifiers. It was
the best Club/PA system I ever heard.
the best Club/PA system I ever heard.
orthophonic
Super Member
It was Big Daddy's in Orlando Florida owned by Flanigans in Miami. They had disco Clubs all over Florida, two in Orlando, two in Daytona Beach (one was by the racetrack the other on the beach by the pier, it
was huge, six levels. They had them in West Palm, Naples, Tallahassee, Tampa, Jacksonville and several in Miami/Fort Lauderdale and many others I can't recall. The ones in Miami were always called Flanigans, all the others Big Daddy's.
They were all similar in concept but they varied in size and decor, all had lighted dance floors. Most like in Orlando were three levels. The speakers were all original Gauss drivers. All of the clubs used them or modified Electro-Voice Sentry IV's, which was the base cabinet of the E/V with Gauss woofers, Gauss mid horn on top and JBL ring radiators, all driven by BGW. They always used White equalizers and JBL electronic crossovers. Some of the clubs like the one
on Daytona Beach used additional tweeter arrays over the dance floor, these were driven by BGW 250. They all used either Cerwin Vega Earthquake subs or JBL Scoop subs. All of the systems sounded excellent,
and everyone at the time always commented on the sound being much better than most other clubs. The clubs I have been in recently are pathetic by comparison.
They would sometimes have live bands or sometimes disco artists that would live sing to their prerecorded track and they used the club systems. The systems were designed to double as a live band sound reinforcement system when needed. When used as such, only the speakers in front/above the band/stage were used and the other pair across the floor were cut off, there was a special large switch for that.
I can't remember the name of the company that installed all the systems, but it was a large well known company that did concert sound systems.
The building in Orlando is still there, it was sold in 86 or 87 and became a mens club (topless) and is still operating like that today. I heard when it was sold and changed into a topless club, they threw all of the speakers
and equipment(which was all still there) in the dumpster. I didn't find out until it had been done.
Joe Flanigan was the owner, he passed away a number of years ago but his family still operate Flanigan Enterprises, which are now a chain of restaurant/sports bars, one opened up in Orlando a few years ago.
was huge, six levels. They had them in West Palm, Naples, Tallahassee, Tampa, Jacksonville and several in Miami/Fort Lauderdale and many others I can't recall. The ones in Miami were always called Flanigans, all the others Big Daddy's.
They were all similar in concept but they varied in size and decor, all had lighted dance floors. Most like in Orlando were three levels. The speakers were all original Gauss drivers. All of the clubs used them or modified Electro-Voice Sentry IV's, which was the base cabinet of the E/V with Gauss woofers, Gauss mid horn on top and JBL ring radiators, all driven by BGW. They always used White equalizers and JBL electronic crossovers. Some of the clubs like the one
on Daytona Beach used additional tweeter arrays over the dance floor, these were driven by BGW 250. They all used either Cerwin Vega Earthquake subs or JBL Scoop subs. All of the systems sounded excellent,
and everyone at the time always commented on the sound being much better than most other clubs. The clubs I have been in recently are pathetic by comparison.
They would sometimes have live bands or sometimes disco artists that would live sing to their prerecorded track and they used the club systems. The systems were designed to double as a live band sound reinforcement system when needed. When used as such, only the speakers in front/above the band/stage were used and the other pair across the floor were cut off, there was a special large switch for that.
I can't remember the name of the company that installed all the systems, but it was a large well known company that did concert sound systems.
The building in Orlando is still there, it was sold in 86 or 87 and became a mens club (topless) and is still operating like that today. I heard when it was sold and changed into a topless club, they threw all of the speakers
and equipment(which was all still there) in the dumpster. I didn't find out until it had been done.
Joe Flanigan was the owner, he passed away a number of years ago but his family still operate Flanigan Enterprises, which are now a chain of restaurant/sports bars, one opened up in Orlando a few years ago.
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
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bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
Time to check in, OP. Are you making any sweet sounds with this stuff yet?
G871
Active Member
Small update! No sweet sounds as of yet, but parts are ordered. Will be building N8000 networks with Nelson Pass' tweeter circuit mod. (just one 1uf cap)
Couple days ago I did a little work and took some pictures.
- I removed the huge, very heavy mounting brackets on all 4 speakers, as well as the back-up cables that were attached from the back of the cabs to the rafters in the club in case the brackets failed.
- I took the panels covering the old crossover holes off to assess that situation
- Removed tweeters to check them out. They don't appear to have been opened unless someone heated the foilcal instead of poking through to get the center screw/bolt. (?)
- Removed old crossover parts from this one pair, in prep for new ones
- Pulled off some old saggy velcro for grills that are long gone, and pulled the accompanying staples.
- Aaand, a quick wipe down of the dirty cabs.
Here is the back of one cab with the cover off of the old crossover hole, as well as one of the tweeters. The phase plugs are all slightly crooked, but I did some searching on that and found that you can loosen some screws and recenter it.
Back of another cab, followed by some frontals
Another tweeter
Some side shots, and one lens. I cleaned the top plate....will have to disassemble the lenses and clean each plate, as they are very dusty.
I went and got some MDF and 1/4" pegboard (with no holes, so not sure why it's stilled called pegboard) to make new (sturdier) panels for the old crossover holes, where I will put some binding posts for the 2440's wires to enter the cab and connect to the crossover. (binding posts also ordered)
Just have to make those panels, and then the crossover parts should be in any day now! Very close.
Hoping to hear them by the end of the weekend.
Couple days ago I did a little work and took some pictures.
- I removed the huge, very heavy mounting brackets on all 4 speakers, as well as the back-up cables that were attached from the back of the cabs to the rafters in the club in case the brackets failed.
- I took the panels covering the old crossover holes off to assess that situation
- Removed tweeters to check them out. They don't appear to have been opened unless someone heated the foilcal instead of poking through to get the center screw/bolt. (?)
- Removed old crossover parts from this one pair, in prep for new ones
- Pulled off some old saggy velcro for grills that are long gone, and pulled the accompanying staples.
- Aaand, a quick wipe down of the dirty cabs.
Here is the back of one cab with the cover off of the old crossover hole, as well as one of the tweeters. The phase plugs are all slightly crooked, but I did some searching on that and found that you can loosen some screws and recenter it.
Back of another cab, followed by some frontals
Another tweeter
Some side shots, and one lens. I cleaned the top plate....will have to disassemble the lenses and clean each plate, as they are very dusty.
I went and got some MDF and 1/4" pegboard (with no holes, so not sure why it's stilled called pegboard) to make new (sturdier) panels for the old crossover holes, where I will put some binding posts for the 2440's wires to enter the cab and connect to the crossover. (binding posts also ordered)
Just have to make those panels, and then the crossover parts should be in any day now! Very close.
Hoping to hear them by the end of the weekend.
toxcrusadr
Omelette au Fromage
To my eye, the crossover cut out look to be too square for the N7000/8000/typical JBL crossover face. If you measure the distance between screw holes, I can tell you if they could fit..., not that it makes a difference at this point. Still, I gutted a pair of N7000s to fit the cutouts in back of the L200 cabinets. It used to be that these things were affordable and the housing is more important that the two caps and chokes that were in them.
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