What symptoms are there when a Marantz needs a ReCap?

[tommyjonBois]

Re-Capping a unit that works is a waste of your time and Money

Ok, so I just acquired a Marantz 2270 and a Marantz 2252B. I had both professionally cleaned immediately and I asked my trusted tech to check the caps and replace as needed. He insisted they were all fine. I have been reading consistently that the electrolytic capacitors lose spec and the music suffers and since my Marantz gear is all original, obviously they need recapped? The Marantz 2252B sounds a hair better and has full bodied sound with good bass response while the 2270 seems flat but still sounds ok.

So I just want to know when should a recap be done? Do all original Marantz 22xx amps need recapped if they are found all original and still working? What experiences do others have in this area or what symptoms are obvious for the need for a recap?

 

[ZombyWoof]

IMHO:

"So I just want to know when should a recap be done? "
Every 20 or 30 years.

"Do all original Marantz 22xx amps need recapped if they are found all original and still working?"
Yes, especially if they are original.

"What experiences do others have in this area or what symptoms are obvious for the need for a recap?"
Poor frequency response, usually lacking in bass. Hum with volume turned all the way down, hum with volume all the way up, with no input signal. Fuse blowing on power up for no apparent reason.

I would not wait for a catastrophic failure caused by a capacitor finally giving out. It may take out parts that are unobtainable. Caps are cheap. Do it now and be happy for a long time.

 

[ConradH]

IMO, by the time there are any audible symptoms, it's long past time for service. It's amazing how well some circuits work when the caps have lost value, gained value, have high dissipation factor or have corroded leads and bad seals.

My experience to date is that almost nobody measures the cap properties that really tell you if they're going bad or not, and that at 30 years the odds are extremely high that at least some parts are bad. Thus I agree with that 20-30 year recommendation for rebuilds, or at least a darn thorough check-out.

FWIW, in about the same time frame many carbon composition resistors will also be out of tolerance or close to it.

 

[turnitup]

Age. If you want to keep these around and you have the $$$, its a great investment. Vintage Marantz has become very valuable (but you know that!) Always the weakest link in vintage gear IMO. I'm still seeking my silver and blue 22XX/23XX. Some day I hope, but the prices are skyrocketing... Enjoy them, but protect them!

 

[tommyjonBois]

Which Caps

Ok, I am going to recap the 2270. I believe there are certain electrolytic capacitors that are always critical that need replaced. Does anyone by chance know exactly which ones these are as I have to be specific to my stereo tech. He is an expert workin on electronics but this whole recap idea seems alien to him or something since he did not recommend or attempt to change caps on my 2270

 

[turnitup]

I'm not competent enough to give you any guidance on which ones to target, but I generally replace all of the big filter caps as everything else down stream seems to benefit or at least be slightly more protected (or so I'm told). Get a quote on a full recap. The caps themselves are fairly inexpensive, its the labor that will cost you. Once your tech has it cracked open, it might not be that much more to target the whole thing. Its a LOT of labor though. I've been told to expect about $300 for a full recap job on a mid-level unit - obviously a lot of variance depending on your receiver.

 

[05SRTguy]

How long would it take a layman to do it himself?

 

[bktheking]

The key is desoldering, if you own a proper desoldering gun a 2270 can be redone in around 8 hours (this is only caps , all caps and nothing else). There are a few tough boards on the 2270/2245 that requires desoldering some wires to get at the boards. I've redone 3 2270's and ALL OF THEM sounded totally different afterwards, better IMO.

 

[Oerets]

For me if I'm needing to replace a cap on the power supply I do them all on the board. Have done a total few of my keepers just because.

But any hum or problems with the protection circuit are another sign a cap going south.



Barney

 

[SoundOfSound]

I have a 20 year old receiver from a different manufacturer, TEAC. I notice that when I first turn it on it does not sound as robust as it used to. It takes about an hour for the mids and bass to firm up. I'm planning a full recap. Caps are cheap and easy to find. It's better to replace the old caps before they cause damage to some irreplaceable component.

 

[ZombyWoof]

"I believe there are certain electrolytic capacitors that are always critical that need replaced. Does anyone by chance know exactly which ones these are as I have to be specific to my stereo tech."

IMHO:
At the very least any electrolytic capacitor used for filtering the power supply or DC sections of the various circuit boards. I would also replace all tantalum capacitors with electrolytics, space permitting.

What's left are generally lower voltage lower capacitance caps that cost so little you may as well replace them as well.

"He is an expert working on electronics but this whole recap idea seems alien to him"

It is a fact that electrolytic capactors have a finite life. If this tech only works on newer equipment it may not have occured to him, yet, that replacing components that are destined to go out of spec, or ultimately fail, is a worthwhile preventive maintenance task. If you intend to keep a piece forever. Could be too that he doesn't want to tell you how much he will charge for this endeavor or the liability of something going wrong in the process. Ask him. If he's an honest person you should get a no BS reply that makes sense.

 

[ccheath]

And make sure he "knows" how to work on vintage receivers.

 

[rBuckner]

Besided the power supply, I higly recommend the tone control board be done. Replace the 458 transistors in there too with KSC1845's.

 

[Allegroconbrio]

Besided the power supply, I higly recommend the tone control board be done. Replace the 458 transistors in there too with KSC1845's.

Second that. Recapping those two boards will result in the greatest improvement in sound. Make sure replacing the large caps is part of the power supply rebuild.

 

[mrki]

You need to replace caps, no dubs

ZombyWoof member excellently described what you have to do and I think, you should listen to him.
I recently recap one Marantz amp, all caps looks fine, but here is what I measured after desoldering them out:

6800 uF (2 pieces) - 5300/4750 uF
100 uF (4 pieces) - arround 98-99 uF; one of them 75 uF!
220 uF (4 pieces) - arround 212-214 uF; one of them 170 uF!
22 uf (2 pieces) - one of them 13 uF!
47 uF (2 pices) - one of them 21 uF!

And the capacitance isn't the only parameter to deal with. What about looses through capacitor? So... look at the title.

 

[tommyjonBois]

Thank you for the feedback, I am going to have my Marantz 2285B recapped as well. Thank You.

 

[tommyjonBois]

Ok, after a long discussion with my good tech, he says all of you are wrong! He says as long the capacitors are within the manufacturer's specification or tolerance then the caps are still fine. He made an analogy of tires where why should I replace my tires when they still have 25% tread left. He did agree that a re-capping will definitively increase the longevity or life of the unit overall but has no bearing on sound quality or anything like that.

I made it clear that many audiokarama folks feel after a recap the equipment sounds better but then he rebutted that a lot of it is in the imagination.

He did not feel it necessary to recap my Marantz 2285B or 2270.

He said many of the folks on here are probably retired audio guys with lots of money and do stuff like recapping units that work fine just to do it because they are bored and have money.

I took my amps to him with the intention of having him recap and charge accordingly and he gave me that whole spill about it. I have to respect his opinion as he has 30+ years experience repairing audio equipment and he has a E.E. degree not to mention this dude owned a stereo shop from the late 70s until 2003 selling the gear everyone on here talks about.

If anyone can make a better argument, I would love to take it to him and hear what he has to say to it. In the meantime, I guess my 2270 is not so great sounding in comparison to my Yamaha CR1020.

Tom

 

[mrki]

Well... Tom, I'm not bored, I haven't a lot of money, not retired at all... and I have over 20 years of experience in audio and electronics... So, your good tech knows exactly which of that capacitors are within the manufacturer's specification or tolerance? Unfortunately, english is not my native language so I can't explain to you all tehnical details and I still think that ZombyWoof member excellently described all about this.
None of my satisfied customers would agree with your tech. Otherwise, maybe are all of them wrong, who knows?
Analogy with tires is totally misplaced until a good tire pressure. Tire pressure is important... and the "pressure" in your capacitors is far from ideal.
I must admit that I was a bit disappointed but it's your receiver and your decision.

 

[ConradH]

Not rich, not retired, have studied cap characteristics extensively. If your tech measured value, dissipation factor and DC leakage of every cap, he's right. If he missed the last (impractical in-circuit) he still gets to pass go and collect $.02. If he missed the last two, no he doesn't know what condition those caps are in and whether the receiver needs a recap.

If it doesn't sound great, IMO it needs something, be it caps or maybe something else.

 

[Allegroconbrio]

Recapping a vintage unit is not some time-wasting exercise to keep one occupied and to waste some money. Every receiver I've recapped exhibited an obvious improvement in sound quality. I'm a recording engineer by profession, so small changes in sound quality are pretty obvious to me. If your tech feels your unit doesn't warrant a recap (as any unit as old as yours does), research this forum - I'm certain there are many competent individuals who can do the job.

Rich W