What was your biggest surprise?
- Thread starter Tom Bombadil
- Start date
Billfort
Addicted Member
I know how you must have felt. This combination remained in place for several years. I almost sold everything else and settled down.
Almost.....
It was my awakening - and why I've stuck with this avatar all these years.
runnin'
Super Member
Biggest surprise was that all people do not have equal hearing. Talent, skill, ability, whatever it is, it's for real. I still remember the day I played a favorite track for a friend. At the end of it he said that the bass singer went flat. I had listened to the song dozens of times and never caught that. But only when I focused in on the last note of the song and the bass singer, there it was, but the friend heard it first time.
Another big surprise was that cables can make a big difference. I had thought they were all pretty much the same without ever experimenting, but when I got a seriously good pair of speakers and a quality amp to drive them, the day I got a pair of Audioquest Type 4 speaker cable I'll never forget. It wasn't subtle.
Another big surprise was that cables can make a big difference. I had thought they were all pretty much the same without ever experimenting, but when I got a seriously good pair of speakers and a quality amp to drive them, the day I got a pair of Audioquest Type 4 speaker cable I'll never forget. It wasn't subtle.
Tom Bombadil
AK Member
I know others hear something totally different than I on cables. I compared high end cables on high end equipment numerous times and when I (or any others with me) didn't know which cable was being used, then none of us could hear a difference. Some systems used for evaluation are listed below:
1) All top of the line Audio Research front end into Thiel CS3.6 speakers.
2) Cary CD player into Conrad Johnson preamp & amp into top of the line Martin Logan speakers.
3) Top of the line Parasound DAC into Cary separates into Von Schweikert speakers.
4) All Classe front end into B&W 802 speakers.
I never heard a bit of difference. I was always hoping that one of the other listeners could show that they could consistently hear a difference, but none ever did.
Agreed. Unfortunately, some folks don't understand the cable metric summing implications of switches that can be easily measured.
TJLitt
Super Member
right there on my list of revelations, as well. Also, the progress in modern speaker technology/production. The latter is noticeable in the SQ of what I'd call 'mid-range' floorstanders and in most every level of stand-mounts. From my listening experience a couple years back, listening to a LOT of floorstanders, but keeping myself to a $3500 budget, I got to hear quite a few speakers that would rival many 'top-tier' speakers of a vintage nature that I've heard. Now, admittedly, much of the vintage listening was in my early vintage, with some cases of great speakers fed by dubious sourcing or amplification. I have friends with VERY impressive vintage speakers,but those friends are feeding them a damned good level of both sources and electronics. Still, under somewhat controlled listening(I kept the amps similar to my modest stuff, 75wpc solid state, with good, but not nearly top end disc players) what the average speaker puts out today shocked me at the first listening session. On another thread, the explanation for why is offered. Still, I wasn't prepared for what I heard.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
I don't understand what cable metric summing implications of switches means -- that's for sure.
Wow, mhardy6647 I don't either. Maybe E-stat could explain it to us. I understand resistance, capacitance, current capacity as it relates to wire cross section and a lot of that stuff but "Cable metric summing implications of switches that can be easily measured" has me stumped.
So E-stat, how about explaining what that means in laymans terms.
BillWojo
So E-stat, how about explaining what that means in laymans terms.
BillWojo
My biggest surprise was hearing a 2A3 SET amp in my system for the first time. The intricate and delicate detail in the higher frequencies that came out so absolutely clear. The syrupy smooth midrange. The authority in the bass was surprisingly much better than I was expecting. Considering the tube was designed nearly a century ago, you can't help but wonder if audio has really progressed all these years?
I think my biggest surprise was hearing how much an upgraded power supply can improve the sound of digital gear. I first experienced this back in the Audio Alchemy days, and since have found it to be true for a wide variety of DACs and other digital gear (like my current DSpeaker room-correction device).
runnin'
Super Member
Interesting. I recall when I was shopping for a DAC, some were offered with outboard power supplies. I never paid much attention at the time and went with the Emotiva XDA-1 and it's internal supply. I ended up selling it when I found its limitations. But now I see many offer outboard supplies and wonder what I'd have had I gotten the cambridge or HRT streamer.
My biggest surprise came about 30 years ago when shopping for an amplifier. I had recently purchased a turntable, the low end Thorens TD146, based on specs and appreciation for its appearance and end-of-side lift/shut-off feature. While shopping for an amp, one dealer had me audition an LP12 with Basik Plus arm and Basik cartridge. It completely changed my expectations for what was possible in record playback. The dealer was also patient and accommodating over several listening sessions, including a willingness to mount up a few different cartridges on my Thorens, anything he had in stock that I wanted to hear, to compare to the Linn. The dealer knew that I wasn't in a financial position to immediately walk out the door with another turntable, but about 6-10 months later I ended up with the Linn 'table along with the original Naim Nait integrated. Even with some less-than-$100-a-pair Jensen bookshelf speakers borrowed from my older brother (who also bought the TD146 from me), music was incredibly involving and satisfying.
Three decades later, I remain convinced that cheap transducers (cartridge and speakers) well controlled by a good quality turntable and amplifier is the most cost-effective route to a musically compelling hifi system. I'm also surprised at how good the performance can be these days even at the lower end of a manufacturer's line. A system based around a Rega RP3 turntable and Brio-R amp, while far from cutting edge, could keep me spinning records far into the night every night of the week.
Three decades later, I remain convinced that cheap transducers (cartridge and speakers) well controlled by a good quality turntable and amplifier is the most cost-effective route to a musically compelling hifi system. I'm also surprised at how good the performance can be these days even at the lower end of a manufacturer's line. A system based around a Rega RP3 turntable and Brio-R amp, while far from cutting edge, could keep me spinning records far into the night every night of the week.
sqlsavior
Lunatic Member
I guess my lack of big surprises could mean that I don't get out enough. But I've had several smaller surprises along the way. I'm pleasantly surprised at how much I am liking my current cartridge, having not run a MM in years. I was mildly surprised at how little DSP'd distributed bass did for me in my listening situation. I'm another who was surprised at how good Maggie MMGs sounded - I felt I'd discovered high-end all over again. I was surprised to find the bronze Quads set at 240v, and so babied over here all those years. And I probably shouldn't be surprised that vintage TOTL Luxman tube power amps beat a current BOTL SS Luxman integrated, but I am, nevertheless.
But I've had several smaller surprises along the way. I'm pleasantly surprised at how much I am liking my current cartridge, having not run a MM in years. I was mildly surprised at how little DSP'd distributed bass did for me in my listening situation. I'm another who was surprised at how good Maggie MMGs sounded - I felt I'd discovered high-end all over again. I was surprised to find the bronze Quads set at 240v, and so babied over here all those years. And I probably shouldn't be surprised that vintage TOTL Luxman tube power amps beat a current BOTL SS Luxman integrated, but I am, nevertheless.My surprise came after I built a Pass Aleph J clone amp. 30 WPC Class A. It is paired with a pair of New Large Advent's with upgraded tweeters. I previously ran a Soundcraftsmen A2502, McIntosh 1900 and a Bose 1801. The Aleph sound blew me away. I never thought an amp would make that much difference and only 30 watts! Bass is tight and lower than any other amp I've heard, mids and highs are crystal clear. Wide 3D soundstage.You guys need to try one of these. It makes the Advents sing unbelievable. I am scared to think what a high end set of speakers would sound like, however the Advents sound so good now I am not in a rush to find out. Definitely the most dramatic difference in any system I have owned and I have had lots.
When one wants to compare one cable with another, the operating assumption is that you will be evaluating the first cable's inherent LCR and shielding properties by itself vs. that of the second cable by itself.
Using Y-adapters and common ground switch boxes, however, the LCR metrics of both cables are combined. I measured the results using a 80 pF cable and a junk 500 pF patch cord. At the end of either combined cable, you find a total of more than 580 pF.
You end up comparing nothing. Both to both. Many sources are sensitive to the total values of capacitance and inductance which can change their sonic character.
