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When You Go With The Flow, How Low Do You Go?

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by musichal, May 16, 2018.

  1. bberkom

    bberkom AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,453
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    My ADS L1530’s go plenty deep for me, but now that I’ve had them, I could never go back to anything that doesn’t put out 30hz this easily. I think the -4db number is 18 hz or something like that!
     
    musichal likes this.

     

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  2. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8642 Subscriber

    Hoping to break a few windows here rockin' Porcupine Tree ... <G>
     
    musichal likes this.
  3. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

    Messages:
    29,026
    Location:
    San Francisco Peninsula
    Well my JBL L250s go to 30hz

    But my Velodyne FSR-18 is another story...


    IMG_2138.JPG IMG_2137.JPG


    Product Features & Controls
    • 18" subwoofer with tandem 3" voice coils & 220 oz. magnet
    • Built-in 1250 watt (RMS) high efficiency class D amplifier
    • Accelerometer based seNO control system for extreme accuracy
    • Adjustable (40 to 120Hz) low-pass crossover (defeatable)
    • Selectable (80 or 100Hz) high-pass crossover outputs
    • Balanced (XLR) inputs
    • Line-level (RCA) inputs & outputs
    • Speaker-level inputs & outputs with 5 way binding post connections
    • Signal sensing auto turn on/off (defeatable)
    • Variable volume control
    • Selectable phase control (D· or 180·)
    • Selectable subsonic filter (15Hz or 35Hz)
    • Frequency response of 16Hz - 120Hz +/- 3dB
    • Detachable power cord
    • Magnetically shielded for video use
    • Multiple staggered low-pass crossovers; 12dB/octave initial,
    48dB/octave ultimate
    • Gain compression circuit prevents over excursion & amp clipping
    • Infrared remote control with power, volume & mute functions
    • External remote connector for custom installation
    • Power on & protection indicator LED (green)
     
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  4. Yamaki

    Yamaki Not For Hire Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,201
    Location:
    Hillsboro, Oregon
    Here are the woofers I was referring to in the Aerials:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Old Guy8

    Old Guy8 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,054
    Location:
    Rockford, Illinois
    Guess I'm not knowledgeable enough to put a number on what I hear. Don't play with test tones.
     
  6. triode17

    triode17 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,365
    The low E on a Bass, 39 Hz.
     
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  7. musichal

    musichal poet emeritus Subscriber

    Messages:
    11,422
    Location:
    Norman OK
    I wonder how low for the concussion of big drums... a kick drum or the tympani?
     
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  8. reydelaplaya

    reydelaplaya AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,643
    Location:
    Aguadilla, PR
    I'm using a set of bookshelf speakers I made a few years ago which are essentially clones of the old SF Concertino bi-wire - same drivers, same crossovers, same port and driver position layout - only difference is the cabinet volume. These cabinets were pre-made from Madisound and are a couple litres smaller that what Sonus Faber used on their originals - which strangely enough, the Madisound cabinet volume is exactly what the mh-audio site calculated as optimal for these SEAS drivers.

    [​IMG]


    I'd expect that these more or less mimic the frequency response of the originals which is stated at 55 - 20,000Hz, +3dB. Not sure what that +3 dB is actually telling me there, but they sound really nice.

    08FDECE2-4F1C-4EBF-923F-A4CDD3AA0604_zpsyucs4szk.png

    As far as bass goes, I'm pretty sure they get a little lower than that 55Hz. When I was putting all this together I drove myself crazy running all the numbers, dimensions, 'Q's etc. over at the mh-audio site, and then crossover specs through X-Sim, and ultimately I think it all showed they were rolling off just below 50Hz, a bit closer to the SEAS suggestion of 45. But let's face it, how low can you really push a 5.5" driver? LOL

    052E2B80-C736-4F8C-AC53-82E95D21C15C_zpsddphsclr.jpg

    Whatever the official frequency is though, I'm way more content with them after a few years of listening than I was when I was originally building them. For some reason back then I was dead-set on building floorstanding speakers (intending to copy the Cremonas) and these were only going to be temporary. But once I got some nice stands for them, and after putting them through the paces for the last few years, I've decided I like everything about them and have no immediate need to change them - within their prime frequency range they sound absolutely amazing. Though if desired, they can still hit plenty low enough to rattle the little glass windows above my front door, but I rarely ever listen that loud anyway. LOL
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  9. Nixxuz

    Nixxuz AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    804
    Location:
    Minnesota
    That's a hell of a peak at around 130...but yeah, I don't so much love bass, as I want the ability to never have to say "Gee, I'd like more bass." So I have 2 budget 15"s running in the back of the room and an 18" monster as a front firing sub. I can do a pretty reasonable 25-27hz, although I haven't even got any music right now that would hit that low.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  10. neevo

    neevo Super Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    @Nixxuz yeah you’re right, but the MSO setup wasn’t applied above 100 hz as I have the subs crossover set at 60.
     
  11. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

    Messages:
    16,623
    Location:
    Philadelphia PA
    Open E on an electric bass is 41.2Hz. On a five string bass the B string is 30.8Hz.

    I'm a bass player.

    From Wiki:

    4 String 5 String 5 String
    (tenor)

    6 String Note Frequency 4 String Notes
    (ALTERNATIVE ONLY)

    Alternative 4 String Tunings

    1 1 C3 130.813 Hz (String order for Alternative lowest to highest) (See directly below table for tuning names)
    1 1 2 2 G2 97.999 Hz E Eb, D, C
    2 2 3 3 D2 73.416 Hz A Ab, A, G
    3 3 4 4 A1 55 Hz D Db, D, C
    4 4 5 5 E1 41.204 Hz G Gb, G, F
    5 6 B0 30.868 Hz
     
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  12. dcmfan

    dcmfan AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,859
    Location:
    Welcome 2 Missouri
    I like this chart.

    main_chart.jpg

    Helpful to identify where in the frequency range i was hearing nulls and nodes. It also made me realize that for the music I like, a true full range system probably wasn't necessary.
     
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  13. triode17

    triode17 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,365
    I would think concussion is like a DC pulse.
     
  14. stish

    stish AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    679
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    I have a pair of Focal Electra 1007S bookshelf speakers which are -3db at 43hz according to the specs. However, I have no idea about actual in room behavior. I know that running them full range and blending in a HSU Research VTF2 works best with the subs low pass set at 60hz. The sub tuned for extended low frequency is -3db at 18hz from the specs but I assume that's wildly optimistic in room. It does provide a presentation that keeps me smiling.
     
  15. oblomov

    oblomov Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    626
    Location:
    Alexandria, Virginia
    Wow, a harp gets down into the 20s Hz? I would't have thought.

    I never remember Harpo Marx going subterranean like that.
     
    Yukon888 likes this.
  16. E-Stat

    E-Stat AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,734
    Great question. While tuned percussion like tympani isn't super low, the concert drum does have fundamentals below 50 hz. Think Rite of Spring. The Firebird. You hear the initial strike and the weight follows as it wafts past you. :)

    Harry Pearson was a bass enthusiast and exposed me to other genre use such as Micky Hart's Dafos, Yim Hok Man's Flying Dragons and Leaping Tigers, and Air from the The Thin Red Line soundtrack.
     
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  17. tubed

    tubed Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    15,550
    Location:
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    How accurate and capable is frequency output of my Chromebook playing back youtube frequency tests, for instance.
    0 through 30 hz:dunno:
     
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  18. Nixxuz

    Nixxuz AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    804
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Should be pretty accurate. Generating and outputting a signal isn't that hard. It's when it hit's the speaker that things get interesting.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  19. tubed

    tubed Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    15,550
    Location:
    Aztlan
    With a you tube frequency test, none of my speakers produce any sound below 30 hz, as far as my ability to hear goes, although the cones movement increases as the frequency drops below that 30 hz level:idea:
     
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  20. reydelaplaya

    reydelaplaya AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,643
    Location:
    Aguadilla, PR
    Speaking of tone generators, there’s a great one I downloaded from the AppStore a while back to use my phone as the source while testing my speakers (and hearing IIRC when we were discussing that). I mentioned it in that hearing thread some time ago, but I don’t see the harm in mentioning it again.

    29076447-E499-4BF6-A119-8D22E67DA8AD.png

    One, two, or all three tones simultaneously (the second is hidden behind the app info in the pic, but is normally visible), any combination of sine, square, or sawtooth wave, each with its own individual volume and modulation sliders, and each goes up to 20,000Hz and down to a bewildering 0.1 Hz - inner yellow wheel speed searches, while outer grey wheel fine tunes to exact frequency.

    This is the app I used to determine that my speakers do actually go below SF’s stated 55Hz, though as it gets lower than about 45, it does roll off. And yes, at the lowest 0.1Hz, I can see the cone moving in slo-mo. LOL

    Last I downloaded it, it was still free, and it got updated to 64 bit, and therefore carried over during the ‘Apple’s Great 32 Bit App Purge’, so it works on iOS 11+. It’s a really nice, small-footprint, easy to use app with no annoying ads or anything. I’d totally recommend it if you’ve got an iOS device, and it may even be available on Android.
     
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