Where Do I Start?

goatlocker

New Member
I have never ever downloaded the first music file. However, I see the writing on the wall, and whereas I used to be able to find anything I wanted on vinyl or CD, I expect that to change, and want to move into the next generation of music access. I do not really see myself wanting to do streaming any time soon. I would likely just use a radio for that kind of listening. I do however wish to go out and obtain any new album of interest and have in my stockpile of music somehow, to play as desired. I am thinking I ought to be able to download digital file music for storage onto a hard drive and playback from there. However, I'm finding that there is so much to know about that simple process that it's almost overwhelming. I know I want to listen to fidelity at least as good as what we expect from CD's or digital mastered vinyl. I do not yet know how to translate that into digital downloaded stuff, encoding values, best formatting files etc...
I want to go with a component DAC which can handle current input options, but do not want to get into something which will be obsolete inside a decade. I have old school components for several sound systems. One is a 2 channel sys that uses a Yamaha A-1020 integrated amp. The second, also 2 channel, incorporates a Yamaha CX-1000U preamp to mono block tube amps.
I don't want to put the cart in front of the horse in talking about which DAC I ought to purchase, when I don't even know which kind of digital music files I will be obtaining. I'm just stumped where to start. My brother suggested I go with an Oppo component, but which model? None of this will be used for HT, or surround sound anything.
 
Well....

It may not be as overwhelming as you think. I think what might be overwhelming is the options that are available to do what you want to do. However, seems like "starting simple" is the right thing to do, if for no other reason than to figure out if you even enjoy this kind of audio playback.

Help us a bit by letting us know what your budget is. You said that you want to back up your files to a hard drive and access them from there, so I suspect your budget should include a nice sized networkable drive if you don't have one already.

You might also consider skipping digital file downloads for now. Consider ripping some of your CD's and playing them back from your PC or other drive to see if you even enjoy this kind of music playback.

Welcome to the journey!
 
Budget is flexible to some degree. I can see dropping around a grand to get fully integrated, but since I'm not sure what direction to go exactly, I'm skittish spending a lot before I understand what I'm getting into. My primary motivation for starting down this road of digital music sourcing is to maintain access to new music, and old, as the availability of traditional formats diminish. I am finding that perhaps I'm making a few false assumptions at the start though. For example, it seems to me so far that one generally must use a PC or smart phone as a source to play the music files from. I had thought that I could simply load music files onto a storage device such as a USB hard drive, and plug that into a DAC and play the tones like that. But so far I haven't found a device which will handle the job of selecting and playing the music files saved on the hard drive, other than a computer/tablet or phone, I guess. Seems to me that somebody ought to build a device dedicated to handling the task of managing the music files from the storage location, and playing those files. Having to use a separate PC for this duty seems a shortcoming within the industry to me when there are so many advanced audiophile DAC components out there that could be made to handle the files management task as well as the DAC tasks, all in one device. Maybe there is something like that already and I haven't ran across it yet. If there are, please point me that way. If not, I suppose I could buy some laptop to be used as a music file server, which would blow up the budget I have in mind for this project. I don't want to bother with less than CD quality sound or better. Thanks for the guidance!
 
The Blusound Node 2 is another alternative for $499. There are others too. These devices are pricey because you are basically buying a computer in a fancy box.

Or you could buy a Raspberry Pi for $50 and use a USB stick with it.
 
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Budget is flexible to some degree. I can see dropping around a grand to get fully integrated, but since I'm not sure what direction to go exactly, I'm skittish spending a lot before I understand what I'm getting into. My primary motivation for starting down this road of digital music sourcing is to maintain access to new music, and old, as the availability of traditional formats diminish. I am finding that perhaps I'm making a few false assumptions at the start though. For example, it seems to me so far that one generally must use a PC or smart phone as a source to play the music files from. I had thought that I could simply load music files onto a storage device such as a USB hard drive, and plug that into a DAC and play the tones like that. But so far I haven't found a device which will handle the job of selecting and playing the music files saved on the hard drive, other than a computer/tablet or phone, I guess. Seems to me that somebody ought to build a device dedicated to handling the task of managing the music files from the storage location, and playing those files. Having to use a separate PC for this duty seems a shortcoming within the industry to me when there are so many advanced audiophile DAC components out there that could be made to handle the files management task as well as the DAC tasks, all in one device. Maybe there is something like that already and I haven't ran across it yet. If there are, please point me that way. If not, I suppose I could buy some laptop to be used as a music file server, which would blow up the budget I have in mind for this project. I don't want to bother with less than CD quality sound or better. Thanks for the guidance!

An Oppo 203 or 205 would do it and provide playback for just about any disc. You can plug a USB harddrive or thumbdrive directly into these.

Good luck with your search.
 
it seems to me so far that one generally must use a PC or smart phone as a source to play the music files from. I had thought that I could simply load music files onto a storage device such as a USB hard drive, and plug that into a DAC and play the tones like that. But so far I haven't found a device which will handle the job of selecting and playing the music files saved on the hard drive, other than a computer/tablet or phone, I guess. Seems to me that somebody ought to build a device dedicated to handling the task of managing the music files from the storage location, and playing those files. Having to use a separate PC for this duty seems a shortcoming within the industry to me when there are so many advanced audiophile DAC components out there that could be made to handle the files management task as well as the DAC tasks, all in one device. Maybe there is something like that already and I haven't ran across it yet. If there are, please point me that way. If not, I suppose I could buy some laptop to be used as a music file server, which would blow up the budget I have in mind for this project. I don't want to bother with less than CD quality sound or better. Thanks for the guidance!

Sonos has been doing exactly that for the past 15 years now. Logitech and others required software running on a server, which is why their Squeezebox hardware is long defunct. Sonos has always required nothing more than a NAS or even a thumb drive in the back of your router. It will index the files for you from the drive, no PC required.

However, well over 90% of digital music is now being streamed, with millions of tracks available, controlled via a phone, tablet or your voice. There are multiple options to stream without needing a PC, or needing to route the stream through your phone, including Sonos, Chromecast, and the upcoming Airplay 2. Even a $50 Echo Dot from Amazon can stream directly from several cloud providers to your stereo via voice command.

Lots of options, more being introduced constantly.
 
Some look at the PC as a limiting factor, some don't. Some folks start with a PC based system and move to a network-centric system later if they feel the need. Some stick with a PC based system because they need both audio and video playback within a single solution, or because it offers flexibility and upgrade-ability. The Raspberry Pi is another take on a PC-based system in a smaller, less "noisy" and efficient package. Pretty slick.

If a PC based system isn't an attractive option, there are plenty of alternatives as others have pointed out.
 
There are many options for playing digital files. The ability to play downloaded files plus discs narrows the field significantly. Of course, playing LPs will require a pre-amp (or integrated amp) with a phono input.

What types of music do you like? (Some genres are more commonly available in certain formats.) I believe that it’s important to get a player that supports all of the available recorded music formats for the music that you like – so that you have the most options for buying high quality recordings. (For example, I listen to classical music and opera. SACD (including multi-channel) is common for classical music. Downloaded hi-res (24bit/192kHz) FLAC (e.g. HDTracks) is also common for classical music. Many operas and ballet (and some classical concerts) are on Blu-ray video. (Only a few are currently available on UHD.) Some classical recordings are on Pure Audio Blu-ray. Some classical recordings are available as a DSD download.)

You said that you want access to “new music and old”. Do you want to be able to play CDs, plus SACD, Pure Audio Blu-ray, and Blu-ray video (such as concert videos)? (This gets back to the question of genre. Don’t let anyone tell you SACD is dead – it depends on genre.) Do you want to be able to play “hi-res” downloads, such as 24bit/192kHz FLAC downloads, and DSD downloads?

How important is a fancy GUI for searching for music? (GUI options range from a simple file folder structure for music, to fancy presentation and sophisticated search capabilities.)

Are you willing to invest time in copying all of your CDs to a NAS drive? (Copying SACDs and Blu-ray is more complicated.) This might be very time consuming, depending on the number of CDs, and effort required for tagging. (For classical music, tagging is an enormous PITA.) Only you can decide if this effort is worthwhile. FWIW, I don’t copy CDs to a disc drive. OTOH, some people value using a GUI from their smartphone or tablet to search all of their music, and are willing to invest the time in copying (and tagging) all of their CDs.

How tech-savvy are you (e.g., PCs, smart-phones)? Some solutions require you to perform the role of systems integrator, other solutions are much simpler to use.

FWIW, I believe that audiophile-grade “universal players” are an excellent choice for digital music, if you want to be able to play discs, and downloaded music. I own Oppo UDP-205, BDP-105, and BDP-95. You can get started playing downloaded files via a simple method that I call “sneaker-ware” – i.e., copying files that were downloaded to your PC (e.g., from HDTracks) to a USB drive, and then plugging the USB drive into the USB port on the front of the Oppo. You can use the Oppo’s remote to navigate the file structure, or use a smartphone app to control the Oppo. If you want to employ more sophisticated DLNA networking from a NAS drive (vs. sneaker-ware), that’s an option with the Oppo player.

I use the analog outputs from my Oppo players (UDP-205, BDP-105, BDP-95) to drive vintage tube amps. (I can drive 1950s era McIntosh MC30 mono tube amps directly from an Oppo universal player – i.e., no pre-amp. Sounds fabulous.) My hi-fi systems include 2.0, (two) 2.1, and 4.2 (LCR, single rear channel, 2 subwoofers). The UDP-205, BDP-105, and BDP-95 all have “audiophile grade” DACs and analog circuitry built-in, and don’t require an external DAC to achieve excellent sound quality. (The UDP-205 and BDP-105 have digital inputs allowing use of its DACs by an external device. I have my HDTV connected via TosLink to my Oppo BDP-105 on one system. Chromecast Audio is connected via TosLink on my UDP-205 in a different system, facilitating streaming audio such as Spotify Premium and Tune-In internet radio.) The Oppo’s variable output can directly drive power amps, in addition to integrated amps and preamps. (The UDP-205, BDP-105 also have a headphone jack.) Considering the versatility of the Oppo UDP205, I think it represents a great value. For stereo, simply connect an amp and speakers. No AVR needed. No external DAC needed. No preamp needed, unless you listen to LPs, or want tone controls.

The UDP-205 provides future “upgrade” possibilities, including a subwoofer, multi-channel music, and of course videos (including concert videos and movies).

The UDP-205 can provide “bass management”, and supports 2.1 (i.e., stereo plus sub) in addition to 5.1. Bass management involves a built-in crossover (adjustable), and an RCA line-level connection for a powered subwoofer. The low frequencies eat up a lot of power. With Oppo's bass management, the low frequencies are off-loaded from the main amp and speakers, and therefore the main amp and speakers are less likely to overload (and sound congested or distorted) during fff passages of music.

With a UDP-205 universal player, you can start with stereo, grow to 2.1, then 4.1, then 5.1 if you wish. (If you have a large room that might benefit from surround-sound, I suggest that you audition a top quality SACD or Blu-ray recording that features surround sound – you might get hooked.)

Even if you will only use stereo, the Oppo UDP-205 is a good choice if you want a “universal player” for discs (CD, SACD, Blu-ray), and downloads (FLAC, DSD). It can downmix any recording to stereo.

OTOH, if you plan to play only music from a NAS drive (either downloaded, or copied from CD), then a music streamer might work for you. I have no experience with music streamers; other AK members can help with that option.

That’s my 2.5 cents. Does this help? Please let me know if you have any questions.
 
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Sonos has been doing exactly that for the past 15 years now. Logitech and others required software running on a server, which is why their Squeezebox hardware is long defunct. Sonos has always required nothing more than a NAS or even a thumb drive in the back of your router. It will index the files for you from the drive, no PC required.
How mistaken you are about the LMS environment. First of all, the Touch player includes a USB port so that you could use local storage if you wanted. I chose to go the server route because mine feeds no fewer than six different music and audio players and the last thing I want to do is maintain duplicate local libraries.

Version 7.9 of LMS was released last year and is in use by a wide range of devices. I retired my Logitech players and now use a Sonore microRendu in the main system and a Raspberry PI based player using piCorePlayer software in the garage, both of which are continually being updated. Unlike the Sonos platform, these are not limited to 44/16 content as I enjoy a pretty considerable library of 96/24 and 192/24 music. Both also support DSD and a range of streaming services as well. I use Tidal HIFI.

A complete LMS based system can be put together for under $300 including high capacity hard drive. An inmate over at AA spends extended vacation time away and brought this combination to Australia with him.

rpi.jpg
 
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How mistaken you are about the LMS environment.

Sorry, but as I said, Logitech stopped making Squeezebox hardware years ago. They lost their market, because they were too complex, had many reliability issues, and a crappy UI. Been there, done that. No thanks.
 
Sorry, but as I said, Logitech stopped making Squeezebox hardware years ago.
You don't have to be sorry about misrepresenting facts - "Logitech and others required software running on a server" . That assertion is so easily proven incorrect. Do you need to see a picture of the USB port on the back of the players?

They lost their market, because they were too complex, had many reliability issues, and a crappy UI. Been there, done that. No thanks.
In reality, the new owners took a different direction and had no interest in that product. Reliability issues? I used their players for about five years suffering none. As for UI, I use a smartphone/pad based controller.

LMS lives on with a wide range of supported players not crippled with the Sonos limitations (closed environment, limited resolution) that immediately eliminates them from my consideration.
 
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Sigh. You live in La-la land. You can “hear” differences in “hi Rez” recordings, lol.

Sorry, I stick with real facts, moved on from Squeezeboxes to a vastly better system, with no regrets. As I said, been there, done that, moved on.
 
Sigh. You live in La-la land. You can “hear” differences in “hi Rez” recordings, lol.
Fortunately, the recording industry doesn't share your limited hearing abilities. You won't find a single recording today mastered in 44/16. None.

Discriminating artists like John Williams have their content mastered in 192/24 like the soundtrack from "The Last Jedi". Apparently, you cannot appreciate what they and I do.

Enjoy your 1981 resolution standard fenced around the 640 MB media of that day. ;)
 
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Fortunately, the recording industry doesn't share your limited hearing abilities. You won't find a single recording today mastered in 44/16. None.

Discriminating artists like John Williams have their content mastered in 192/24 like the soundtrack from "The Last Jedi". Apparently, you cannot appreciate what they and I do.

Enjoy your 1981 resolution standard. ;)
And as has been pointed out on multiple occasions, there are reasons to record at 24 bits, but you can’t point to a single ABX test where anyone can consistently hear a significant difference from 44/16, because no one has ever been able to pass one.

But enough thread crapping, let’s let the OP decide what he’s going to do without rehashing unwinnable arguments.
 
I do not really see myself wanting to do streaming any time soon. I would likely just use a radio for that kind of listening. I do however wish to go out and obtain any new album of interest and have in my stockpile of music somehow, to play as desired. I am thinking I ought to be able to download digital file music for storage onto a hard drive and playback from there. However, I'm finding that there is so much to know about that simple process that it's almost overwhelming. I know I want to listen to fidelity at least as good as what we expect from CD's or digital mastered vinyl. I do not yet know how to translate that into digital downloaded stuff, encoding values, best formatting files etc...

There may be a misconception about streaming. While pretty much all streaming providers I'm aware of have some sort of automatic programming (they call it "radio" or whatever) with premium subscription you get access to full length albums that you can play in any order at will, add them to your virtual collection, or cherry pick the tracks and organize them in your own playlists, and for example in case of Tidal HiFi you can get them at least at CD or sometimes better quality. While I can relate to the desire to "own" the content and keep it on your own storage, say a Tidal subscription can eliminate some of the initial complexities and ease the transition to computer audio. All you need is a mobile phone or tablet, Chromecast Audio, reliable WiFi and Internet access, and maybe a decent DAC but you can just use the DAC built into Chromecast Audio for starters. Easy peasy.
 
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And as has been pointed out on multiple occasions, there are reasons to record at 24 bits, but you can’t point to a single ABX test where anyone can consistently hear a significant difference from 44/16, because no one has ever been able to pass one.
Ignorance is bliss, right? LOL!

Findings from the listening tests suggest that expert listeners can detect differences between musical excerpts presented at 88.2 kHz and 44.1 kHz.

Expert listener you must not be. Perhaps you might want to source your gear from other than Goodwill. More importantly, recording engineers don't "wait" for bogus studies like that of Meyer and Moran where they didn't use truly high resolution recordings and used a crappy $300 player!

I own a number of recordings in multiple formats: vinyl, Redbook quality digital and high resolution digital and can readily hear differences between all of them. I am really puzzled by the motivations of the mavens of mediocrity.

Have you ever had the capability to hear high resolution recordings in your system? Or, do you just base your opinion upon what you read - and clearly don't have the full picture?
 
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OP: As you can undoubtedly discern from the discussion, the value of “hi-res” recordings is hotly debated.

IMO each individual must decide if a high-quality recording sounds better via a hi-res consumer deliverable (e.g., DSD / SACD, 24bit/192kHz FLAC download, or Blu-ray) vs. a CD (or a streaming service that delivers CD quality).

Here’s another controversial topic: I believe that the potential benefits of hi-res audio are particularly important for classical music. For classical music, the concept of “high fidelity” is relevant because classical music involves natural instruments (no electronics) performing live (all musicians in the same venue performing at the same time). We know what classical music sounds like (particularly if we’re familiar with the performance venue), in contrast with some pop music that sometimes includes electronic sounds cobbled together by producers and engineers using software (i.e., there never was a “live” performance). Therefore, the concept of a recording being “faithful” to the original performance is – IMO – particularly important for classical music.

Hence, my question regarding the types of music you like. And my question regarding whether or not you are interested in trying SACD, 24/192 FLAC, and Pure Audio Blu-ray – and deciding for yourself whether or not these consumer deliverables are worthwhile.
 
...A complete LMS based system can be put together for under $300 including high capacity hard drive....

It can be done for less than two hundred. I will assume you have none of the necessary items except for a micro usb cord and need to buy everything else:

Raspberry Pi 3 Essential Kit - $69.99 - Amazon Prime
FiiO E10K USB DAC and Headphone Amplifier - $75.99
1TB portable hard drive - $50 - Amazon Prime

$195.98 Total. Just format the SD card with Daphile (free) and you can play from your personal library, streaming services and internet radio. Control it with a smartphone, tablet or computer.
 
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