Where Do I Start?

Did anyone read my post about compilations on CD/DVD to be played in DVD player? Most won't interpret FLAC or other lossless formats. Baby step.

I have no idea what kind of a car the OP has, but ours won't play from iPhone, so I use an FM broadcaster ($30) as may the OP ...

It seems that in these threads many folks look at where they are at, and suppose a newby will near that. Not ...

We have no idea where the newby is in their hobby. Maybe just a boom-box and a lap-top ... Gotta find the lowest common denominator and build up from there :)
 
Did anyone read my post about compilations on CD/DVD to be played in DVD player? Most won't interpret FLAC or other lossless formats. Baby step.

I have no idea what kind of a car the OP has, but ours won't play from iPhone, so I use an FM broadcaster ($30) as may the OP ...

It seems that in these threads many folks look at where they are at, and suppose a newby will near that. Not ...

We have no idea where the newby is in their hobby. Maybe just a boom-box and a lap-top ... Gotta find the lowest common denominator and build up from there :)
With all due respect, we DO know where the OP is. 1st post in he mentioned that he wanted quality as good or better than CDs.
Being a newbie with digital and not getting to know the lossless options seems silly. Getting a lossless capable setup is as baby step easy as a lossy one.
 
I have no idea what kind of a car the OP has, but ours won't play from iPhone, so I use an FM broadcaster ($30) as may the OP ...

It seems that in these threads many folks look at where they are at, and suppose a newby will near that. Not ...

We have no idea where the newby is in their hobby. Maybe just a boom-box and a lap-top ... Gotta find the lowest common denominator and build up from there

This is as wrong as can be. The FIRST order of business is to know what's possible. Therefore SOTA if not TOTL should be fully understood. THEN, and ONLY then, the inevitable compromises can begin.

Boom box...yu fonny!
 
With all due respect, we DO know where the OP is. 1st post in he mentioned that he wanted quality as good or better than CDs.
Being a newbie with digital and not getting to know the lossless options seems silly. Getting a lossless capable setup is as baby step easy as a lossy one.

OK, I'll take my lumps ... But "he wanted quality as good or better than CDs" Impossible to be better than the source w/o personal editing and such - and that is better as in the listeners subjective opinion... Still not better than, just different.

If he started with SACD it might be as good as possible, but average CD's ... Thrift store CD's (which have yielded some interesting music) and library check-outs - just average in my world.

So question for you'all - do you source best pressings from a rating database and rip from the listed best?

Re-reading my own comments, I seem to have fallen into the same trap I described for you'all ... I assumed that this thread would be read by others just starting out so I was focused on baby steps for all, even though it was really for the OP. I'll wander away now ...
 
Impossible to be better than the source w/o personal editing and such

Ripped CDs can be marginally better than CDs played in a CD player, due to the ability to better recover errors when ripping. A CD player reads the disc in real time, and cannot do multiple pass reads to recover errors. This is the "as good as", as requested by the OP.

The "better than" is achievable by downloading or streaming higher quality media.

Therefore, the OP is looking for a system capable of playing, at a minimum, 16 bit, 44.1kSa/s, lossless PCM.

What the OP did not ask for was "poorer than CDs", which is what would be achieved by ripping to a lossy format.

I assumed that this thread would be read by others just starting out so I was focused on baby steps for all

The first 'baby step' in ripping is to extract the data from the CD. Without any further steps, this would be to bit-perfect, uncompressed, lossless WAV.

You might choose to stick with the WAVs, but understanding that you might want to compress, and why, would be the next 'baby step' (reduced file size, better tagging).

Since lossless compression is, essentially a no-brainer, as it does not degrade the sound quality of the rip, I'd say it's the next 'baby step'.

If you choose lossy compression, you have to decide on a number of parameters of the compression. These aren't trivial, and the decisions you make require an understanding of the parameters, and the consequences of the selections. For instance, here are the options for LAME, possibly the best MP3 encoder available:

https://svn.code.sf.net/p/lame/svn/trunk/lame/USAGE

That's pretty heavy stuff. Not a 'baby step' at all.

Above all, you need to understand that lossy compression will degrade sound quality, and, if you don't keep the lossless originals, you will never be able to restore the sound quality without re-ripping.
 
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Personally? I prefer FLAC. And as @cpt_paranoia stated? ripping a collection to ANY media is a big deal. 400 cd collection, took literally weeks. And then? the hard lessons learned. #1? when you are done ripping, downloading, whatever, MAKE A BACKUP to a second disk. #2? if you place a usb or any "spinning" disk anywhere near your speakers/subwoofer? expect it to die an early death. Disks spinning at several thousand RPM's do not like to be shaken. Even my ancient "enterprise class Maxtor" 300gb (tiny by today's standards) just bit the dust a few days ago. Thankfully? I have about 90% of my collection on a backup USB device in another room.
 
Problem being not everyone likes to deal with Linux command line and it is not for beginners by any stretch of the imagination.



ANY LOSSLESS IS better for storage than MP3, unless you are only using an iPod, phone, etc. Once you lose the harmonics that MP3's filters out to save space, it can't be undone. I used to use MP3, a long time ago and learned my lesson. It is a hard lesson to learn, when you have re-rip CD's to lossless.
Nice username, might have to open a bottle of "Kestrel late harvest, signature collection, 2006". And I agree, adding the HiFiBerry DAC to a Raspberry pi even running a simple "openelec" install? is not for the faint of heart. Though, if anyone were interested, i would be more than happy to assist (Redhat Certified Engineer).
 
My understanding is that the OP’s question is about downloading new-to-him music files that have sound quality better than or equal to CDs. It seems to me that ripping CDs is irrelevant. A "universal player" (e.g., Oppo UDP-205) can play the OP’s existing CDs (without the countless hours associated with ripping), plus play new recordings in a variety of hi-res formats (downloads and discs).

If you want to acquire downloaded recordings that have better than CD quality, then buy hi-res (24/96 or 24/192) FLAC downloads, and hi-res DSD downloads. For his-res discs, buy SACDs, Pure Audio Blu-ray, and Blu-ray. In my post #59 above, I suggest sources for hi-res downloads and discs (e.g., https://www.hraudio.net/ for a partial list of hi-res recordings, HDtracks.com for downloads, and Amazon for hi-res discs.)
 
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OK, I'll take my lumps ... But "he wanted quality as good or better than CDs" Impossible to be better than the source w/o personal editing and such - and that is better as in the listeners subjective opinion... Still not better than, just different.

If he started with SACD it might be as good as possible, but average CD's ... Thrift store CD's (which have yielded some interesting music) and library check-outs - just average in my world.

So question for you'all - do you source best pressings from a rating database and rip from the listed best?

Re-reading my own comments, I seem to have fallen into the same trap I described for you'all ... I assumed that this thread would be read by others just starting out so I was focused on baby steps for all, even though it was really for the OP. I'll wander away now ...
I think cpt-paranoia covered what I'd say, so I won't double up on that.

I dabble in trying to find the 'best' sounding versions of CDs, but by no means am I hardcore about it.

The way I look at with newbies on this subject is that I don't think there is a blanket answer. They need to read a fair bit, and think about what they want out of the deal.
Going all MP3 isn't bad. My dad went that way with his digital stuff.
There's just no reason to start there if the bigger picture plan is to move on to lossless. The learning curve of ripping to MP3 vs FLAC and then maintaining a library isn't all that different.
Sure, there are way more playback options for MP3, but it's not like there are none for FLAC. I play a ton my FLAC files with discarded Apple devices.
 
I too have questions along the same lines as OP. This thread has helped answer a few questions but like so many goes off track and conflict rears it's head.

For those who have mentioned the various cd quality question, here is a link I have found useful in determining the quality of a given "pressing".

http://dr.loudness-war.info/

Very easy to search for specific cd and see rankings and where yours lives in the rankings.

I have not seen this link previously in this thread so thought some might find it helpful.
 
My understanding is that the OP’s question is about downloading new-to-him music files that have sound quality better than or equal to CDs. It seems to me that ripping CDs is irrelevant. A "universal player" (e.g., Oppo UDP-205) can play the OP’s existing CDs (without the countless hours associated with ripping), plus play new recordings in a variety of hi-res formats (downloads and discs).

If you want to acquire downloaded recordings that have better than CD quality, then buy hi-res (24/96 or 24/192) FLAC downloads, and hi-res DSD downloads. For his-res discs, buy SACDs, Pure Audio Blu-ray, and Blu-ray. In my post #59 above, I suggest sources for hi-res downloads and discs (e.g., https://www.hraudio.net/ for a partial list of hi-res recordings, HDtracks.com for downloads, and Amazon for hi-res discs.)

This is all correct regarding my intent. Copying anything from CD is not on my radar to begin with; rather my reference to CD was to say what level of SQ I was after as a base-line. Unfortunately, I'm such a <noob, that I'm not using all of the correct terminology, and probably misunderstanding much of it as well. I know I need to study, and read up on all this. For example, Lossless vs Lossy. What the heck is that! So, I think I have enough new terminology now to choke on for a while, and do some homework to understand. Perhaps after I've done my due diligence with the homework, I'll be able to better form my questions and come back here for another tutorial.
As I see the topography of this whole topic the MAIN categories are as follows:

1. Music Software Formats:
- Music file format. Varies according to sound quality, where it comes from, where it will be used, how it will be stored, how it will be played back.
- Downloading Music software, programs vary by PC operating system, music source provider, music file format to be downloaded, destination for download.
- Playback sw, varies iaw which music file format you are using, and from where it's being sourced.
- Music recording (ripping?), the sw varies according to all the above.

2. Hardware:
- Generally one needs a PC with access to internet to obtain the music files.
- One can obtain music files stored on portable drives such as USB hard drives, or thumbdrives.
- One can play the music files either from a local storage device, or from direct streaming off the internet or some other remote server, via wireless or direct connection.
- Playback HW will vary according all the above. From one or more of following: PC, DAC, multifunction players, etc.


Maybe some suggestions or links for recommended readings would help at this point.
 
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loss"less" means no loss. FLAC/ALAC/ and even WAV would be lossless
lossy means there is loss to one degree or another. mp3s and other compressed formats

the source is the key. if streaming is the source and it is compressed (mp3 or other) you can not rebuild it back up to lossless, or in other words the "loss" is not retrievable. this true no matter what the source.

I store all files in ALAC (Apple lossless) and will convert to 320 mp3 for devices that can't handle lossless formats, but always have the original files in lossless as well.

external storage is cheap. I saw something yesterday that suggested they were about to launch sdmini storage devices (the size of a postage stamp) that hold 512 gb.
 
Copying anything from CD is not on my radar to begin with; rather my reference to CD was to say what level of SQ I was after as a base-line.

d'oh! Apologies for misunderstanding...

I do however wish to go out and obtain any new album of interest and have in my stockpile of music somehow, to play as desired.

I read this, and probably concentrated on the 'in my stockpile of music' bit, thinking you wanted to move your CDs to a file-based stockpile.

The discussion about lossless (perfect reproduction) vs lossy (approximate reproduction) is still relevant to files you download.

In pictures, the equivalent formats are RAW, or BMP (lossless) and JPEG (lossy). Think about how blocky, lacking fine detail, and full of reconstruction artefacts some low-quality JPEGs are. Similar effects occur in lossy compression of audio.

This recent thread might help with the local network streaming stuff:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....digital-players-and-streaming-devices.796600/
 
This is all correct regarding my intent. Copying anything from CD is not on my radar to begin with; rather my reference to CD was to say what level of SQ I was after as a base-line. Unfortunately, I'm such a <noob, that I'm not using all of the correct terminology, and probably misunderstanding much of it as well. I know I need to study, and read up on all this. For example, Lossless vs Lossy. What the heck is that! So, I think I have enough new terminology now to choke on for a while, and do some homework to understand. Perhaps after I've done my due diligence with the homework, I'll be able to better form my questions and come back here for another tutorial.
As I see the topography of this whole topic the MAIN categories are as follows:

1. Music Software Formats:
- Music file format. Varies according to sound quality, where it comes from, where it will be used, how it will be stored, how it will be played back.
- Downloading Music software, programs vary by PC operating system, music source provider, music file format to be downloaded, destination for download.
- Playback sw, varies iaw which music file format you are using, and from where it's being sourced.
- Music recording (ripping?), the sw varies according to all the above.

2. Hardware:
- Generally one needs a PC with access to internet to obtain the music files.
- One can obtain music files stored on portable drives such as USB hard drives, or thumbdrives.
- One can play the music files either from a local storage device, or from direct streaming off the internet or some other remote server, via wireless or direct connection.
- Playback HW will vary according all the above. From one or more of following: PC, DAC, multifunction players, etc.


Maybe some suggestions or links for recommended readings would help at this point.

You need to be concerned with the provenance of recordings (i.e., the quality of the original recording), plus the format of the consumer deliverable.

Regarding deliverables, CD is 16bit/44.1kHz, vs. some “hi-res” formats are 24bit/192kHz (e.g., FLAC downloads, Pure Audio Pure-Ray discs), vs. DSD “single bit” hi-res format (e.g. SACDs, and DSD downloads).

One of the most fundamental principles of hi-fi: garbage-in / garbage-out.

Most modern recordings are made, and mastered, in hi-res (24bit/192kHz) digital PCM format, or hi-res DSD (single-bit) format. The issue is whether you buy the recording in this hi-res format, or if you buy a deliverable that has been “down sampled” into the 30+ year-old CD format (or some highly compressed format that is optimized for portability vs. audio quality). In a “lossy” format, the music has been compressed in such a way that part of the music content cannot be recovered – in other words the audio quality is irrevocably compromised.

Some vintage analog recordings have been re-mastered into hi-res, in some cases using the original analog master tapes. In some cases, the results are excellent. For example, some of the SACDs remastered from RCA Living Stereo classical recordings from the 1950s (in some cases 2 channel, others 3 channel) deliver remarkably good audio quality. (Specifically, Heifetz’s 1955 performance of Beethoven Violin Concerto in D sounds surprisingly good.) OTOH, I have a CD of the famous 1942 Furtwangler performance of Beethoven Symphony 9 that was originally recorded from an over-the-air broadcast onto seven 12” 78rpm “Decelith” discs – and the audio quality is, of course, poor – regardless of re-mastering. (Never mind Caruso recordings that are more than 100 years old.)

If you haven’t already done so, you might consider joining discussion forum(s) for the various types of music you like. IME this is a great way to learn more about music, and learn more about specific recordings.

I’ve learned a lot about classical music and opera from talkclassical.com, and I’ve benefited from specific recommendations for recordings. (I don’t see anything in the AK rules that prohibit mentioning other forums. I trust an admin will weigh in, if needed.) I’m considering opening threads on talkclassical.com sometime this winter: i) audio hi-res multi-channel classical recordings that have excellent audio quality (e.g., SACD, Pure Audio Blu-ray, multi-channel DSD download), and ii) audio hi-res stereo (2 channel) classical recordings that have excellent audio quality (e.g., SACD, Pure Audio Blu-ray, DSD & FLAC downloads), and iii) video hi-res classical recordings that have excellent video & audio quality (e.g., Blu-ray, UHD).

If you find hi-res recordings that you’d like to own, you’ll discover which formats that your equipment must support. (As I’ve said before, I suggest getting a “universal player” that supports all formats, so that you have the maximum flexibility in acquiring new hi-res recordings.)

There are new ways to enjoy music that 30+ year-old digital technology (CDs) can’t deliver – specifically, hi-res audio, multi-channel hi-res audio, and hi-res audio/video.
 
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I wonder if all the hi-res downloads are genuinely taken from studio master tapes, or whether there are some that have simply been upsampled from ripped CDs...


Allegedly there are some on-line retailers who use a CD as the source, and fraudulently deliver the recording as a “hi-res” FLAC download. Buyer beware: garbage-in / garbage-out.

My understanding is that there was an effort in the industry to address the issue of provenance, but I’ve not seen these classifications on recordings:

Master Quality Recording: A coding system devised by electronics and music industry trade groups to describe the provenance of digital music files for consumers, retailers and recording industry professionals. The four Master Quality categories include:

MQ-A: From an analog master source

MQ-C: From a CD master source (44.1-kHz/16-bit content)

MQ-D: From a DSD/DSF master source (typically 2.8- or 5.6-MHz/ 1-bit content). (DSF is a type of DSD master file.)

MQ-P: From a PCM master source 48-kHz/20 bit or higher (typically 96/24 or 192/24 content)​


I would argue that MQ-C is not “hi-res” – but rather is a scam.
 
An Oppo 203 or 205 would do it and provide playback for just about any disc. You can plug a USB harddrive or thumbdrive directly into these.

Good luck with your search.

That`s exactly what I`ve been doing for about a year now, except the flash drive with all my music is inserted in my OPPO BDP-103 since I upgraded to the UDP-203 for it`s HT 4K capability ..

And if I wanted to I could connect an external 960 Gig. SSD with a inexpensive external power supply/usb interface and connect that to the OPPO`s front panel usb jack, but the current storage of my 500 Gig. flash drive has more than enough storage for the over 6,500 songs WAV. ripped currently..

I like the fact that in doing my digital music playback there are no fans/laser/moving parts to fail.
And my 5 year old OPPO BDR-103 doesn`t seem to care that it runs 24/7 whilst doing so..

Just what I like, FWIW.

Regards, OKB
 
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My one piece of advice for anyone contemplating ripping their CD collection.

DO NOT RIP TO A LOSSY FORMAT LIKE MP3.

Ripping is a process you only want to do once. Rip once. Rip perfect. Rip lossless.

You can always get your computer to create a lossy version from your lossless rips, if you need smaller files for portable players. You can never recover the perfect file from a lossy format.

Absolutely!! :thumbsup: + :beerchug:

I learned this the hard way !!

It`s no fun re-ripping again of about a 1000 CD`s to lossless WAV. !!
 
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